i want to know that when will my final due if i have cleared my ipcc goup I in november 2010 but joined articleship on 1/7/2011 and it is due to complete on 31/06/2014

As you are in Mumbai, when it comes to taxation, then (in most cases) you dont need to worry much about clientele of firm.

Its only in audit that clientele of firm would be a factor – as each set up is a different world.

For tax purpose, join articleship under the CA who has better tax practice / known for tax matters.

I have worked in a top and reputed purely Internal Audit firm in mumbai. I have taken transfer from that firm since want to go into taxation.I am having the option to join in a mid size with only few ltd company as clients and one is G.P. kapadia in mumbai.

which should i choose since i have heard that G.P.kapadia now doesnt have been left with much good clients and work?

So on that date the excess leave would be calculated. For details read:

1) http://indiapoint.net/finance/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-2-leave

2) http://indiapoint.net/finance/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-procedure-to-set-off-excess-hours-worked

The number of days of excess leave – on your due date – has to served in addition – after 11-8-2014.

However this excess leave is a misnomer – as excess leave can only be calculated at the end of 3 yrs of articleship.

The excess leave that is mentioned in your letter is one that has been calculated ‘prorata’

The total eligible leave in 3 yrs training is 155 days.

You would be eligible for May 2014 attempt, if your articleship finishes (including excess leave) before 31 October 2014

To make a positive impact in my field of activity, leading to organizational and personal growth by creative application of my value based convictions, job skills and professional dexterity.

Professional Qualifications
• Passed Common Proficiency Test (CPT) in Dec. 2010
• Passed IPCC Both Group in Nov. 2011

—————————————————–
EDIT: Request NOT to post your Resume on this website.

If you want to find firm for articleship, then read: http://indiapoint.net/finance/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Also, plz remember, no one provides articleship based on resume posted on website. Better visit a few firms and meet some CA s. Contact your nearest ICAI office – you will get some leads from there as well.

I guess you can contact them for help on email or phone

Plz read: http://indiapoint.net/finance/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Getting more work is not a problem. You only have to ask for more work, and you will get more work.

What is your “purpose in the future”? And what do you mean by “standard place for job”? These would vary from person to person. Thats why I suggested secondment – so that you could have diversity of exposure in work and at the same time without going into the paperwork & anxieties of termination.

For industrial training, read: http://indiapoint.net/finance/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-11-industrial-training

Given your situation, I would suggest:

1. Request your Principal to send you for assignments of any of his colleague who might be having works like statutory audits of banks / insurance companies / Corporate Sector listed companies. Usually such informal arrangement exists among CA s.

2. Another way is that you find for yourself such firm / CA, and go for secondment. Secondment can be for minimum 4 months and max 1 year.

http://indiapoint.net/finance/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-11-asecondment

As your Principal is following rules prescribed by ICAI relating to articleship, I would not suggest transfer. Small firm does not mean that it is not good. Its only in cases like where there is big problems with the Principal or in cases where there is no work and the student is sitting idle for long days, only in such situations one should contemplate transfer

As for the areas of training, you can read: http://indiapoint.net/finance/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

Plz read: http://indiapoint.net/finance/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-please-suggest-firm-to-do-articleship

The firm may seem small, but you get to have direct interaction with your Principal and get to learn things.

Usually all problems arises because there is no proper communication – so always keep your communication clear – never shy from asking any question from your Principal.

Also read: http://indiapoint.net/finance/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Plz read: http://indiapoint.net/finance/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Eligibility for finals is related to articleship. Plz read the details at: http://indiapoint.net/finance/2011/04/21/ca-examination-rules/

thanks.

Besides these there are others also that are considered big – like – KS Aiyar, Sharp & Tannan, Singrodia Goyal, MM Nissim etc.

In sharp and tannan i am not getting any tax related work. I want some exposure in tax also. Should i change firm keeping in mind firm name and future career prospects?
Thank you in advance.
Kashish Mehta.

The firm is originally of Kanpur, & has a branch at Jabalpur

http://220.227.161.86/16824panel_SCAs_09-10.pdf

More exposure in training is definitely good.

Now a days in general, employment provides high salary from the very beginning.

However, there is no direct linkage between the kind of firm one does training & what kind of work one actually does (or even the field one actually works) after qualifying. Passing the exams is more important than just training. Training is mandatory – it should be done. However not everyone lives in big cities or can get into big firms – but that does not mean that they are less than equal.

http://indiapoint.net/finance/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

In general, mid size firm = lots of training & work rotation (in general)

I guess in Chd you would find good firms.

2. No. In the fields that you mention, CA is just another qualification competing with other finance qualifications. However in field of Corporate Finance (like say officers working in finance dept of a company), often CA s & CWA s would be preferred. In other fields its MBA s of good institutes.

3.All that would depend on work available

4.If you are thinking of dummy – dont do CA. The only edge that a CA has over other qualifications is the articleship. However nearly all qualifications have some sort of training.viz. CWA has 3 yrs, CS has 15 months, MBA usually do a min 2 month training as part of course work. Infact, for a fresher wanting to go for employment, the articleship that one has done may be the defining element in getting placement ! However direct correlation is not always there. These also depend on opportunities & luck.

Thanks in advance,
Rajesh

The difference is that you may not get exposure to Blue Chip companies, other than audits of branches of banks & insurance companies.

At Jabalpur, there are also firms that were even CSA (Central Statutory Auditors) of Banks !

As for TATA, a student can do industrial training only if s/he is in Final and in last year of articleship. For the first two year, it has necessarily to be a CA Firm.

While passing the CA finals, perhaps you can go for employment (other than CA Firm) – for that you dont exactly need to be a member. Depending on the kind of work, you may also get exemption from 15 month CS training, and wait for the time till you are eligible for CA membership

http://indiapoint.net/finance/2006/02/27/articleship/comment-page-9/#comment-661

Also check out what ICSI has to say on additional course

I am in CA final stage.But also enrolled for CS during my articles.My case is -
I started my articleship under CA on april30,2007. In month of august,2007 i also enrolled for CS but i didnt realised that I was suppoose to take permission for the same from the institute.
But now my articleship is over in october ,2010 and have also completed my CA PCC ,in nov10 and also cleared my CS Executive in dec,10 examination.
In january I went to the institute for obtaining permission for CS,but they refused to grant me permission saying since my article is over nothing can be done now and i will have inform them at the time of obtaining membership.
But now my major concern is that every delay will increase the ban period(delay in memebership),as per institutes rule, on me,as the period of delay is already 4.5 years I will be banned for 1 years and if it gets to 5 years the ban will be for 2 years.

what can i do to minimize damage ?pleas help!

and also consult the local ICAI office

CA s working in Big 4 definitely go out of country – I am not sure about the Articles.

The attributes that you have written has to be there wherever you work.

Both Delloit & KPMG are equally good. Its like choosing between Coke & Pepsi !

…i am basically from rajkot and i want to get article ship in delloitte or kpmg but certain question are arising in my mind…so i need your help

i heard that in big4 articles have to go out of country for work..is it true ? ,, my long term vision after become ca is to practice so how important big 4 to me ??…is there any benefits in big4 except work ..i mean improving atticats , body language, skills , decision making ? …and suggest me which is best delloitte or kpmg ?

thankyou.

smit kesariya

Also read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

For CA articleship there is absolutely no exemption. Infact those who are employed in such fields of accounts etc for any number of years – even if they want to do CA, they would have to first resign and then do articleship.

Exemption from CA articleship is available only to CA s of few foreign institutes like the CA institute of England etc. with which ICAI has MoU. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2011/06/30/foreign-ca-institutes-and-icai/ (Even in those cases there are certain restrictions in practice rights)

Criteria for exemption of CS training is in a previous comment: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/comment-page-9/#comment-661

For the other two options you should be able to get set off.

Details with links, you can read at: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/comment-page-9/#comment-661

Tye scheme would work only when notified

As to articleship in Gulf, frankly, I have no idea. The best place to know this information would be from ICAI chapters in these countries

In both these cases of recruitment, the prescribed educational qualification is a graduate degree. Having any other qualification neither adds to recruitment preference nor to promotion or increment.

Firstly define for yourself what you mean by “Corporate Financial Management” – that will help you to shortlist the kind of sector you want to work in. Corporate FM for a Power company would be completely different from say a Banking company – and so on

Secondly – get good marks in CA Finals

You will have to do the necessary due diligence yourself.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-3-working-hours-timing-of-work

Secondly, even if say, your regular college hours do not clash with office timing, you would get stuck for certain number of months – even if you pass CA finals

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/#toc-additional-course-during-articleship

Given this situation, better join articleship either after completion of college -or else shift yourself as a private candidate prior to joining articleship. I would suggest better join articleship after you finish college

As to how to find firm for training, you can read about it at: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

For details read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-8-transfer-from-one-principal-to-another

You can also use their website: http://www.ey.com/IN/en/Careers/Students

For other bigger or smaller firms, you can as well go and talk with the CA s there even prior to the results. On many occasions they are accessible.

Wherever you go, dont forget to take copies of your CV

However, try to have good communication skill, be natural, you should be good in AS (whichever you know) – and should be prepared for some general question like

1. Why do you want to join ….
2. Which subject / topic you like the most (you should have fairly good command over that)
3. Why do you want to be CA

Usually recruiters at this level are trying to find out whether you have some working knowledge of the subject, would be able to communicate properly, would be a team player, obey orders, and would be willing to travel whenever required.

http://icai.org/new_category.html?c_id=202

Some of the foreign chapters also have their own websites

Its usually good if you contact and get to know the procedure of inducting Articles prior to declaration of results.

As to what is the better option – articleship in big4 or abroad – I would say, in the end what really matters is where you land with the job or what kind of work you would do after articleship. Join the articleship where you would have least tension and max exposure / rotation

During articleship same rules (restrictions) would apply whether one does training in India or abroad.

After qualifying CA, practice can be done in India only (ie attestation of audit reports). Employment can be done anywhere in world.

For practice in the foreign country CA qualification of that country has to be acquired

There is always demand for qualified and experienced professionals in this sector.

If you have in addition CA qualification, then you can as well attend the mid career placement: http://www.icai.org/forum/careerascent_bg.html

there is also a Gulf Campus: http://www.icai.org/forum/gulf.html – but that is not relevant to you as you want to shift to India

Thanks,
Rahul Mehta

I would say – tell your Dad that if you dont get practical training, at the time of interviews – it would be too easy for recruiters to see that you have not done the training – and you could be in trouble. Besides, if someone complaints to ICAI, even if you pass the exams, your career may be in jeopardy.

http://icai.org/new_post.html?post_id=4535&c_id=219

ICAI may initiate inquiry and make life too difficult for you

The bigger the work, more is the segmentation. I would suggest that even in audit see if you can get opportunity in areas of compliance or reporting. Mere checking & reconciliation work may not be interesting.

From perspective of ICAI – it does not matter from where you have done articleship, because if you have taken you training properly – that should suffice. At the end what matters most is passing the finals.

If your goal is practice, training in bigger firms is not of much use.

However in employment – some employers do prefer candidates who have worked in bigger firms – like the one in which you are working.

I would also add that in bigger cities & also for bigger companies – the taxation work is mostly looked after by lawyers / firm of lawyers

And even within taxation, the most interesting work relates to case preparation – which is very rarely given to trainess. Most of the taxation work that would come is computation / returns / TDS returns. At some point these becomes too much tedious – as these are now a days done on computers and softwares – and the student feels like a data entry operator !

Currently i am doing my articleship in Sharp and tannan associates. I want to learn audit as well as taxation. But in my firm i have only audit to do. I want your suggestion whether i can join Jain Ambavat & Associates a mid size firm in Mumbai. Does after becoming a chartered accountant it matters from where you have done articleship? Please help me out sir.

Thanking you,
Kashish Mehta.

As for the areas of training read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=653

You have to apply in the printed application format: http://220.227.161.86/22191announ12622.pdf

My ipcc group 1st clear marksheet has not been sent by institute to me or if it is sent but not recd by me i want to know that how can i get duplicate marksheet from CA Institute.

Many local newspapers have adverts of CA firms who have vacancies.

You may as well read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

22 CAMAC STREET, BLOCK C 3RD FLOOR KOLKATA – 700016

SHIVALIK ISHAN BUILDING 2ND FLOOR NEAR CN VIDHYALAYA AMBAVADI AHMEDABAD 380015

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C-401 FOURTH FLOOR PANCHSHIL TECH PARK YERWADA PUNE 411006

The point is not necessarily Big or Small – but where the Principal would give you meaningful assignments.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

Why do you need to specify any attempt in your CV – just mention the attempts you passed.

I would suggest you read:

1. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/

2. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

i have cleared my first group of ipcc in nov. 2010 so i want to know that when i have eigible for CA Final Exam.

To the other point, additional course means additional course – whether regular or correspondence is immaterial.

In case of filling of form no. 112 employer sign is mandatory or not because i am filling for C.S n in case of CS Principle sign i think not mandatory because it is correspondence course so thats why principle sign is not mandatory… i want to that i m right or not.

The other thing is that firms think that if one group passed student is taken, the student would in the very first instance would take exam leave. In practical terms, no CA firm prefers to give exam leave in the first year.

I would suggest you go to few CA firms, and talk to CA s there – something positive would come out.

You can as well read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

As to work – that depends on availability of the kind of work to which one is assigned. Details you can read at: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

A ca is providing me exposure with stipend and second is providing no audits but some bank work.. Whom to choose in your opinion..?

It contains all the details.

Plz read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/#toc-additional-course-during-articleship

REGARDS,
Nidhi

w.r.t articleship, ICAI has made such rules that if one is employed and wants to do articleship by taking three years leave – even that is not permitted.

One cannot be employed anywhere ie.no employee can do articleship.

However if one is non-executive director or sleeping partner prior to joining, then one can do articleship after taking permission from ICAI.

Plz remember Big 4 is not just 4 firms – but these have over 30 + offices in India – and for practical / operational purposes each of these are separate firms.

So if someone wants to add to basic criteria, they can do so.

But even when preparing advisory reports, keep the ethical aspects in mind.

As you are in Mumbai, in my view, work flow should exist in your firm.

For kinds of work, read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

As such, it does not really matter as there are many opportunities for those who pass CA exam. Plz read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/07/30/motivation-for-success-in-ca-exams-cases-of-real-cas/

You can as well read a recent comment of kind of work assigned in a bigger firm: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/comment-page-24/#comment-4844

But, you cannot be enrolled for two courses while doing articleship

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/#toc-additional-course-during-articleship

ICAI only allows one additional course during articleship. Read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/comment-page-20/#comment-4152

However many violate this rule in ignorance or even willingly

You have to learn things by yourself and find problems and find solutions to those problems by yourself. If you dont understand, then ASK. But no one is going to tell you your method of work. Infact during my articleship training we were just told to visit the (new) client and study their systems and procedures. And it would be us who would do the initial briefing to Principal. When the Principal would understand the problems, then he would visit and analyse it and refine our findings!

Infact there were even occasions when the Principal would not have time to even look at report – and tell us to finalize it and rely on our work. So in such cases we had to be pretty careful. An interesting thing happened once – in one of such assignment that related to internal audit of a branch of private sector telecom company – those people used to take internal audit as pretty easy and would not show us the papers that we demanded for purpose of audit. I was assigned to this audit (that audit had been continuing for over a year, and I assigned in middle – as the Principal thought that the audit needed to be spruced up). For two – three months, I saw that the attitude of those people were not proper towards the audit. Finally one day I decided that it was enough. So in the report of that month, I listed all the lapses – and that included their not showing CAF for two months (which has Home Ministry implications and considered very important in those days) !! As the audit was a continuing one, Principal did not even read it as he had no time !

And one day after a week when I reached office, the Principal tells me – Anup – you have created an explosive situation ! The employment of head of the branch is at stake and the branch head has received heavy firing from Mumbai HO & he has been called for meeting by Br Head & my Principal was waiting for me to reach office to go to meeting !! In the meeting the Branch head was simply livid – “is this the way to send audit report?” -he remarked, and my reply was – “Sir, plz verify each and every word that is written in the report”! Then there was detailed discussions of what we wanted, and what our requirements were for audit.

And you wont believe it that from that month onwards, those same employees would keep their records updated and would cooperate with us. The branch head who would earlier not even talk with us properly, would now come to us and ask if we had any issues or problems – and we could ring him up directly for anything !

If the work is meaningful (and not like billing for airtel), then there is no reason why you should even think of leaving.

You have to find your own ways and set your own standards of work and reporting

Infact you should be happy that you have been given independent kind of charge of the work. Take this as an opportunity and challenge.

Though not every incident (like the above one) is mentioned there, but you can read my articleship experience at: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

and at

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-110

so i left J.C Bhalla & Company and joined a small sized firm in my home town that is alwar rajasthan i learned many things about taxation there, then after 3 months, i took transfer because it was a small sized firm and i couldn’t see the working of big organisation..

then i joined some firm in Noida a big firm am working with this firm currently, they have allocated me in uflex limited a listed company, but sir in this firm their is no training they do not guide me, and train me they just allocated me and said u have to do this work, and thats it, their is no one to teach me, if i am stuck some where then that problem would never be solved… and then they are like, you have not done this and that and blah blah blah blah….
am just irritated from this firm
now am really confused as to weather i should take transfer if yes then should i join some firm in delhi or go back to my home town.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-8-transfer-from-one-principal-to-another

Perhaps its would impact positively on career.

Read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

And what is your opinion for indore and ahmedabad..?

I would suggest:

1. Contact http://www.icai.org/help/ If they reply then good. (I have now a days found that they usually dont reply difficult questions ! – if they reply then do post their reply here so that everyone benefits). And dont worry about putting questions there because no one tracks.

2. Get your Principal to issue a letter making the Partner your MIT. Along with this, get him to sign Form 108 in triplicate without putting dates to it. These papers can be in custody of your MIT, and when due date of articleship completion arrives those forms can be signed by the MIT & also date & seal of firm put on it. If your Principal is considerate, he should not say no. (After all this situation is arising because of him, and not because of you)

3. If nothing works, then the only measure left to you would be Form 119 route. Read about it at: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-termination-exceptional-circumstances However, this procedure is unnecessary in your case, and anyway its time consuming

Given your situation any reasonable person would say that the signature of partner would be good. However in cases of articleship, its the ICAI bureaucracy that interprets the rules

1. Do the Partners have offices at different locations? Talk this issue with your Principal – and just start working under the Partner ! If your present Principal is paying stipend from his own account, under the Partner can get your Stipend paid by the Firm a/c.

2. The other way of informal arrangement – a better way – is to get a letter from your Principal issued that says that the particular Partner would be your Member-Incharge-Training (MIT). This letter would be in your articleship file in the Firm, and a copy be retained by you & MIT (this does not require any intimation to ICAI as it is an arrangement within the firm). However this can be problem if your Principal is junior to the Partner under whom you want to do training (ego-issues, because MIT is usually always younger guy)

However plz remember that in all such informal arrangements – your Principal still remains the Principal – so always be in contact with him – and visit him at least once a month

Now, if you have finished ITT & Orientation, then I would suggest join articleship right now. Dont delay, as eligibility for appearance at final is linked to completion of articleship. Read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2011/04/21/ca-examination-rules/

The reason is that Group 2, you can give even in May 2012. Why the hurry for Nov 2011?

Generally firms abide by rules of ICAI for providing articleship training – and so does Big4. However dont get obsessed by Big 4. The most important thing is that your Principal should be good. There are many good firms – including big ones – other than big4 – for articleship training. I would suggest you read:

1. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

2. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

Also, if you find better opportunities / contacts, you can take transfer before the end of first year of training.

Read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/

I had a query on which I could use your help…..

I cleared my 1st group of IPCC in May 2011, and due to give 2nd Group in Nov. Now I want to start with my articleship right away, but people are suggesting me to look for it after November. I wanted your advise on the same, that whether is it the right time to apply, or to wait till exams are over ? I yet have to start studying for the second group.

Also, in case you suggest me to take it up later, do Big4s in such a case consider your candidature in November, or only during their recruitment drives. Would waiting till Nov, portray as a Negative mark on my application ?

As for my profile, I’m already a BBA Graduate, I started with CA after that and cleared CPT in Dec 2009.

Thank you for your advice in advance.

The thing is, if he never used to come to office, then under whom did you take the training? Who was running the office?

Do you have attendance records? Do you have evidence of having done work in form of assignments, working papers etc ?

It seems you have not written full details of your case.

CA & MBA are different areas. However CA is a statutory qualification – and given the way ICAI has developed over the years, it is considered the best qualification in finance & accounts areas. So, frankly you do not need to take up any other qualification.

However, if you want to do MBA, then there are two things –

1. MBA is meaningful if one has some exposure to job for around 2 year.

2. That MBA should add value to your CA or at least be comparable to the CA qualification. Now such thing is possible only in IIM or ISB kind of institutes. In some cases like ISB, the articleship training is also taken as job experience.

Also read other articles relating to articleship:

1. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

2. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/

3. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/

IPCE Results

ROLL Number
197680 *Check Merit
Name
ANKUR GARG
Group I
Accounting
081
Business Laws, Ethics and Communication
061
Cost Accounting and Financial Management
055
Taxation
060
Total
257
Result
PASS
Grand Total
257
‘E’ indicates marks obtained in an earlier attempt
‘<' indicates passed under CA regulation 1988

To find firms, read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

and shortlist firm as per your criteria

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

and

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

Training is skill & approach development. Its not necessary that what procedures you learn or the particular kind of auditee you get exposed to- that the same thing would be everywhere. In fact each & every client is different with different problems & solutions. And particularly from articleship training point of view, all the tax laws you would learn – they would change by the time you pass out. My advice would be find a mid-size firm (ie. that has three to five partners) for training. Also in my view, the best way is 1st year under one Principal, 2nd year under another Principal or another CA (transfer or secondment route – which ever is convenient), and 3rd year industrial training – that gives the best variety & exposure.

Another thing is that I feel that training should be taken in such place where you can come in frequent direct contact with Principal. When you work in very big firms like Big4, you would be working in hierarchy & only very infrequently be able to meet the Principal. It is the experience of Principal that gives real guidance – that one would not be able to get from the hierarchy.

Besides, you can also read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Its not that the metro cities have only bigger firms – there are smaller firms as well in such cities.

For cases where you want to join branded companies, then bigger firms and exposure in metro cities is required. The fact is that if you have done say audit work in smaller town – you would have no idea how a listed company works! So if you want to work in some of the bigger listed companies or even in consultancy of Big 4 – definitely they would prefer someone who has exposure in their ways of working. However even those who have not done training in such places, may get recruited by these entities when they have 2 or 3 years post qualification experience.

No because the main issue is how well you are well versed with your area of work and what command you have over your subjects. And moreover what is the objective of your life. Not everyone likes the lifestyle of Mumbai.

If you are able to cope up with lifestyle of metro cities and your parents have enough money & you are interested to get such exposure, then go for it. Its not just the big4 – but there are many other good Big firms – and the exposure to work would be terrific. But once you get such exposure, you would professionally find it nearly very difficult to settle or work in smaller cities or even smaller companies.

Articleship training is like layered – those who take training in Big 4 or in other bigger firms get exposed to the frontier areas & training in best practices. In smaller cities, even the Principal may have never got exposure to such kinds of works. I have seen (good) CAs with over 10 years practice – never having got exposure – either as an article or in practice to do something as ordinary as concurrent audit of banks !!

Its like you can say that you audited L&T vis a vis you audited Kumaraswamy Builder !!

And joining Big4 is not that easy as you think. Unless you have some really good marks / good contacts – Big 4 will not take you. The very fact that you are not from big city would work against you at the interview stage itself. Life comes in various colours and so does articleship.

Read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2011/04/21/ca-examination-rules/#toc-final-exams-eligibility-to-appear

Form you can get from http://icai.org/new_post.html?post_id=721&c_id=120

Is it necessary that you do CA? Dummies are not even good for MCom

(Sorry, but everyone has problems)

Read : http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/07/30/motivation-for-success-in-ca-exams-cases-of-real-cas/

You can even do CWA : Read the article http://indiapoint.net/ca/2009/04/21/cwa-a-better-career-option/
(also read the comments to the post -as to who are doing CWA)
In CWA you get exemption from training based on your work experience, besides CWA is as good as CA for purpose of job

Indore is a good place for articleship (it also has a branch of Kanpur RO there, so institute related many problems get solved). In my view articleship should be finished at the earliest – only just be careful that you dont take excess leave.

Frankly what I have seen in reality – firms prefer nothing. If your Dad or you have good contact – even CPT pass non degree students can get articleship in big firms (under PCC). Articleship is no big deal – it is training – and everyone knows that even IPCC pass students (most of them) have never ever seen a cash book

However, if you are enrolled in a regular college – and intend to appear in BCom by proxy. Dont do that. The problem would be on the opposite side. ICAI would say that since you have done a regular college in one city, your articleship in another city is a dummy !

Also read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/#toc-additional-course-during-articleship

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/#toc-how-to-apply-to-big-4-for-articleship

and

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-1-the-big-four

Also read previous comments to different posts, there are various details mentioned in those comments. I cannot really recount all those things that have been written / shared over the years.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/category/articleship-training/

You can also do a search for “Big 4″ at Network Search Page: http://indiapoint.net/search/

I will be thankful for this.

yours faithfully
praseeda

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Thereafter, make five or six critical criteria (which according to you is critical) – and mark out of 10 each of those criteria for these and other firms – which you will find if you search as per method provided there.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Nearly all CA firms would take in freshers. Infact, some of the big consultancy firms (to which CA firms may or may not be affiliated) even provide for summer training for college students.

I will be thankful for this.

Your faithfully
Rekha

Mis-communication and Non-communication is the biggest problem between the Article and the Principal.

As such assignment of work is completely at the discretion of your Principal (and thats why it becomes important that your TALK to him).

To the other point, if you are in first year of articleship, and your Principal agrees, then you can get transfer, else not.

I am Renu working as an article assistant in Chaudhary Pradip & Co right now. But due to personal problem of our sir, they are not giving me any work. So i have no work staying free. So, i requested you to tell me about tranfer that Can i take transfer………..?

Plz reply Sir….
I will be very thankful for this…..

Yours faithfully
Renu Sahu

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/07/25/before-chartered-accountancy-ca-think-again/comment-page-1/#comment-2984

or do CWA

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2009/04/21/cwa-a-better-career-option/#toc-exemption-from-cwa-training

To your other issues:

1) One is not permitted even to be employed (and take long leave) and do Articleship
2) No CA office is open for night shift, beside there is specific hours stipulated by ICAI

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-3-working-hours-timing-of-work

(frankly I am often bewildered at such obsession with CA. The point is that you need a Professional Degree. CWA / CS would equally fit the bill.)

What if a person is already working as an employee in Pvt. Ltd. company as an accountant.
weather he should do his articleship in night shift or he must leave his job coz his family income is only him.. he could not leave his job.
what are the ways to complete the articleship if he is already an employee as accountant in the compnay

I AM IN BIG TROUBLE!!!

Pls. Help

Regards,

Shreekant

If you see – some of the toppers of finals achieved that distinction while doing articleship from the top firms of India

In most cases, articleship completed students can work as either an Accountant or in Internal Audit. Get in touch with some placement agency or use online job portals. At Kolkata you would always find jobs coming your way. Particularly Salt Lake area should be your target. That would also help you after qualifying.

From employee perspective, it seems to be one of the best place to work at
http://www.protiviti.com/en-US/About-Us/Pages/Recognition.aspx

As to internal audit work, you can read my experience at articleship training:
http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/#toc-internal-audit

Secondly, while doing CA, you can only do one additional “Specified” course. So, have you filled form 112, and have ICAI permitted you to do CFA? As far as I know, CFA is not one of the permitted course.

http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=137

List of courses which a student is permitted to undergo during the period of practical training (one Course at a time)
Recognised graduation course of Universities or Colleges affiliated to Universities.
Recognised post-graduation course of Universities or Colleges affiliated to Universities
Courses conducted by the Institute of Cost and works Accountants of India.
CIMA courses conducted by Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, UK.
Ph.D courses attached to the Commerce Departments of Universities

The problem is not that how will ICAi find out. The problem is that you wont be able to use those qualification with “CA” in your visiting cards – if the approval to pursue such additional course is not received. And later in life ICAI would institute an enquiry

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/#toc-additional-course-during-articleship

So plz check as whether ICAI has updated its list of permitted course – and if CFA can be done alongwith CA.

To your other question – “application of mind” is really difficult to get – because most of the work is routine and have fixed forms and formats (statutory & internal reporting). Yes, by shifting, you may be saved from the volume of reporting!

I would say – you should have some good reason to shift from Big4. Just “time to study” is not good reason. Because this question would crop up time and again – till you finally get placement.

As such, if you see – even the ICAI placement portal – has special window for ‘rank holders’ – but no one asks their firm name as to from where they did articleship training.

http://www.icwai.org/icwai/contactus.asp

I am looking for more info on the scope of this area, but the details are very limited. Can you please help me where can I get complete details.

Organisation=”Information Technology Sector” would mean that ICWAI would not limit it to any particular form of organisation. It could be proprietorship/partnership/LLP/Company/Govt organisation/etc

Area=”(ix) Systems Analysis and Information Technology (including ERP system)” . This would mean that you have actually worked in such area. The wording, as you would notice is not platform specific. Also, “System Analysis and Information Technology” is wide in scope and in my opinion would include all technical functions relating to the Software /System process.

So, in a way, you have already got your full exemption from ICWA training.

btw, why are you saying 2.5 years (Point 7). In my understanding you should be able to get full 3 yrs exemption (Point 6)

Exemption from training has to be claimed within 45 days of registration (Point 10)

Take care as to how the experience certificate issued by your Employer is worded for the purpose of claiming exemption

Seems ICWA is better option than CA for me.
One more question Anup: Can I get the exemption from ICWA Articleship(2.5 years). Currently I am working with an MNC in Information Technology Sector as a JAVA expert for past 4 years. I am not sure what is the scope of recognized Organization and Area mentioned in question 6 from the link http://www.icwai.org/icwai/students-faq-trg.asp. In my case those would be Information Technology Sector (Organization) and Systems Analysis and Information Technology (Area).

2) My suggestion would be join IGNOU under the ICAI scheme. IGNOU BCom is not easy – but under ICAI scheme, the good thing is you would be saved from many of the technical papers.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-10-icai-and-its-mous-with-ignou-etc

3) Infact, if you intend to just have a career in CA, then you dont even need to do graduation

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-ca-without-graduation

4) However, appearance in competitive exams of Government, like Bank PO, Civil Services etc would require the basic Graduation degree from University. However for private sector jobs, if you have CA, university degree is not needed.

I would suggest you read the following posts – and their comments (not many are there):

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/07/25/before-chartered-accountancy-ca-think-again/

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2009/04/21/cwa-a-better-career-option/

I would also suggest that you go through:

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2004/05/07/finance-and-accounts-courses/

Finance is a huge area – just wishing to be in finance sector is not good enough. Feel free to ask after reading the above links (and also their comments).

Thanks and Regards,
Satish Fulari.

They are / have been internal auditors of companies like
Adlabs (Reliance Media) – those who make film and TV serials
e-Clerx – the outsourcing company
Pidilite – manufacturers of Fevicol
Voltas (of the Tata) – manufacturers of consumer durables / fridges / Air Conditioners
BASF – of the chemical sector
Raymond – the famous clothline

The portfolio of this firm is primarily of internal audit / advisory / operational audit. From articleship training point of view, its good.

How is about doing articleship in internal audit in Mahajan & Aibara Mumbai?

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/#toc-additional-course-during-articleship

As you are already a graduate, and pursuing only CA, you would be able to do one additional course like CS. Permission happens in the normal course so there is nothing to worry. You will have to fill form 112 for this purpose.

You can read the details at:

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-final-exams-eligibility-to-appear

(Simple rule: only in case of PE2 or PE2 converted to PCC or IPCC its last one year – for all others its last 6 months)

A big positive in working in bigger firms is also that one comes across the personnel in finance & accounts departments of bigger companies – and the contacts developed during articleship may be very useful from career point of view post articleship / post qualification.

(During my time, despite being selected in bigger firms, I did not go for that as my career objective were different – but despite of that, even in the relatively smaller mid size firm – once when I was auditing a big branch of a private telecom operator – I nearly got myself recruited in that company! It was an open offer – but I refused as I had nearly two year of training left !)

CNK has a website, and I find that it is not just a mid-size firm – but a big firm ! (A big firm is not necessarily part of Big 4 – and not necessarily that only Big 4 are big !)

A firm with so many partners can only be classified as big ! http://www.cnkindia.com/partner_profiles.php

Also I find that it provides for all kinds of services under one roof – so you can have the benefit of rotation between different areas of training like audit / tax etc – hopefully it should have such system.

To your other question as to what is criteria of being big – in professional service firms – the bigness is related to revenue it earns. It goes without saying that more partners means more revenue – as ICAI has various restrictions like number of audits that one CA can do – so as the number of audits increase – the number of partners also increase.

Also working in a firm with so many partners – you would be able to have good insight into mindsets of different CAs. Also I find that the sectors of CNK profile quite impressive http://www.cnkindia.com/~cnkindia/indsustry_specialization.php

Another thing that you want to do articleship from ‘best firm in best way’. So plz keep yourself in a reality check – that there may be good firms – but no ‘best’ firm – because that depends from person to person and from time to time http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Even the content of CA is such that everything keeps changing in a rapid pace. So whatever income tax law was there five years back – that is nearly obsolete! And currently in the past few years and also for a couple of years to come – all areas of accounting, company law and taxation are going through a situation of rapid flux. So basically there is no ‘best way’. You should keep a learning positive attitude with a detachment – because what you thought was the ‘best way’ may become obsolete by the time your training ends !

Training should be taken as a build up of attitude to approach the problem and solve it – as content of training may no longer be valid after a point!

Good Luck & Have Fun (but dont forget studies) !

thank you for solving my queries, one thing sir i have decided to join a middle firm as many C.A’s give me opinion to join a middle firm, in terms of articleship, a mid size firm would be better than big 4,& then after completing ur c.a u should join big 4 to get good exposure,WHAT’S UR VIEW?,

sir i want to know is there is also much diff. between middle firms,means whether i should go for CNK, or i should try more to get best middle firm,

PLZ tell me levels of mid size firms,sorry again sir but plz today,tomorrow is my joining there.

Thanking you,
Manish

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-1-the-big-four

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/#toc-how-to-apply-to-big-4-for-articleship

Big 4 are known for their efficiency and performance standards – so it is thought that the student would learn the best practice standards there. However, do keep in mind that the biggest audit failures have also happened in Big 4 !

Apart from this, any audit or any client work has to be done as per the standards (AS & SA) issued by ICAI or as per some statutory Act. So these are the same rules for the Big 4 and the small firm! The only thing in small vs big is that the small firms may not have the listed company audit – which are mostly the domain of bigger firms.

Its often considered that those who want to go for practice should join mid – size firm as that gives the best opportunity of learning. So, in a mid size firm, you may be auditing a small unlisted company – and it may so happen you would be doing the work from beginning to end! Whereas in case you are doing training in Big firm and doing audit of big listed company, you may be doing only say inventory related work!

So its basically your choice as to which you want to join. Moreover, in my opinion, join training in a firm that does not put unnecessay restrictions. At this time you may feel fine – but as you are not resident of Mumbai, you may face problems later on – when you may think that joining such firm was not a correct decision.

And why have you come so far for articleship – unless you have proper residential facility available? Wouldn’t it be better that you join training in some firm nearer to your home place and later on shift to mumbai for industrial training?

Actually sir E&Y has told me to try after 6 months,what should i do,i m very confused,

CNK(firm in which i m selected) has told me to come on tuesday(5/3/2011).

& I m a resident of Kota(rajasthan), currently in mumbai,came here just for articleship.
rply me soon sir plz

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-5-stipend

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-1-the-big-four

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/#toc-reimbursement-of-expenses

Stipend is really something that is firm specific. In such matter till they comply with the rules of ICAI minimum, then no one can really complain. Its other matter that a particular stipend can seem to be less to the student.

Articleship is not really a perfect world – and there are many issues where the student feels at the receiving end – but then thats part of getting trained for the real world ahead.

I would suggest you ask them whether you would get leave for appearing in ICAI exams. And if your Principal is good (ie. you maintain a good rapport with your Principal) then there is nothing to worry.

Simply stated, no CA or firm can make any subsidiary agreement with student other than Form 102 (articleship deed).

i am confused as i should accept their offer or not pls help me with the perspective of the following points:

1: departement i.e. internal audit
2: original certificates
3: industrial training

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-final-exams-eligibility-to-appear

Reference may work, because some of these firms have (legitimate) policy of recruiting by reference! So there is not much you can do about it.

However, I would certainly suggest that you check out your CV – whether it contains things that are not preferred like the kind of hobbies or extra-curricular activities

You may also read:
http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

is it possible to get job in tax. sector if one have more exposure in audit sector? And from my search i found that in every firm you get more exp. in audit.

In one of the establishment as student, where I did internal audit, i would be checking accounts, income tax – like TDS, eTDS, issue of Form 16, advance Tax, then Service Tax, scrutinising returns of these taxes, EPF computation and returns, ESIC, Professional Tax, state-VAT, Costing work, partly Company related matter, and in addition checking of various operational registers, including checking attendance of staff!

However, problem with most of the MNC internal audit is that most of these things are centralised at Head Office. And unless you are doing audit at Head Office, you may end up doing vouching and bank reconciliation! So, you have to be careful.

To your interest with Tax, I would say that tax work is very interesting, but it is really interesting only at the stage of disputes – where one is doing case law work or at the level where one is doing tax return work of diverse companies. Other than these most of the usual work of returns and eTDS can at times become tedious – as more than application of knowledge, one may end up sitting in front of computer and more concerned with running the tax software program. And in the end instead of any real learning can just be doing data entry work!

I would suggest if you are getting opportunity in any firm, ask them if they have concurrent audit of bank. This is the safest learning ground – and one can be well sure to have learnt banking operations. This would needless to say include audit, banking operations, and tax work.

i secured around 60% marks in ipcc and am com graduate. i have interest in taxation and want to pursue my career in that field.

plz guide me i’m really confused. is brand name of the firm matter? would i have to compromise on my interest or will have to join a mid size firm for overall learning. i’m from delhi so plz guide me.

As to your facing an interview, it is only 1% of your articleship. In the duration of articleship, if you are doing audit, you would be asking questions and questions to your auditee – so you would be interviewing others at least 60% of the time.

Articleship is more about asking the right questions. Think of interview as a formal chit chat.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-ca-without-graduation

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-ca-without-graduation

Read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

I didn’t do my training in Big4, yet got a pretty good exposure to different aspects. You can read my experience of articleship at:

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

Its ones CV that decides whether one would be called for interview. Then the interview itself is again another test of selection/rejection.

In first year one does not need any permission from ICAI – but sends Form 109 directly

You can also read:

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/comment-page-5/#comment-3442

So, I would suggest go with indirect tax. Also, indirect tax is a wide area – be sure to get involved in different fields – CE, ST, Customs, VAT.

Good Luck !

It is not possible to do articleship in parts, because every CA has to declare his office hours which is uniform for all purposes of ICAI – and I guess no one has that kind of timing.

I would suggest during this year, if you have any kind of training as part of engineering, then take up something relating to accounting software. I guess Raipur / Bhillai belt being an industrial area may provide for such opportunities.

Also, if possible attend one / two seminars of ICAI at some metro city – depending on speakers and theme, you may get a proper lead / come in touch with the right CAs who can provide you with required articleship in bigger firms. I guess some of the big firms may already be auditing the factory/units of listed company in your area – may be you can get in contact with the accounts/internal audit division of such factory units for further leads.

To your other part ‘not leave one year blank’, I would suggest during the year master the accounting and audit standards – including IFRS/ IndAS that are to come into effect in India during FY 2011-12. The exposure to these at inter level is at best introductory.

But the thing is that i dont want to leave 1 year blankly because this would break a link between my ca studies. so there may be a some way out.

is it possible to do articleship in parts i mean first 9-10:30 and then from 3-7. and if its not possible what should i do do be in link ca for the whole year.

Under the current rules, you cannot do a full time course during office hours

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/#toc-additional-course-during-articleship

Office hours means

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-3-working-hours-timing-of-work

I would further suggest that after engg go for a Big Firm or Big 4 – as use of technology in Audit works – particularly IFRS/ COSO/ SOX framework – would well use your understanding of technology in this field. In SME firms you wont get required exposure. Getting good marks in engineering would help in getting into Big4 firms.

Read through point (8) of http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/#toc-tips-for-finding-firm-for-articleship-training to know the big firms

Frankly I feel that you are confused regarding objectives of your life.

I only hope you dont regret wasting your time in one of these later in your life.

http://indiapoint.net/archives/2005/03/14/doing-one-thing-only/

Dont get me wrong – but choose one and do it well.

http://pcaobus.org/Registration/Firms/Documents/Registered_Firms.pdf

Experience here is as good as Big4

If your son is really interested in CA, thinks that he has the ability to pass Finals and depending on his career aspirations – only then go for CA.

Else if the Bank job is good – let him have that. CA is not the end of everything. While in job, he can improve on his professional qualification in other ways. Read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2009/04/21/cwa-a-better-career-option/

Also read these:
http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/
and
http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-11-industrial-training

Its good that you would be joining CA with specific objective in mind – that helps to keep the focus and also helps in better career management.

You can read:

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

and

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

Also if you intend to do this course – have a positive mindset.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/tag/articleship/

please help me..

tushar

The link to updated rules is at: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#_bot

The kind of Out of Pocket expense I would get were:
1) Outstation audit: Rs. 250 per day with all other expenses paid (ie. travel, lodging & boarding)
2) Outstation audit: Rs. 250 per day inclusive of all expenses
3) Outstation audit: Rs. 100 per day with all other expenses paid
4) Local audit (15 kms distance): Rs. 75 per day petrol expense
5) Local audit (3 kms): Rs. 500 consolidated (on first month only – but not thereafter!)

So, in such matters, the decision of Principal is final – one can try to persuade.

As for rules – there are no rules as such – but ICAI does recommend certain reimbursement to the assistants.

The recommended scale of fees (2006):
http://www.icai.org/resource_file/15785ann_revised_fee_scale.pdf

(remember – these are per hour rates! – and CAs themselves may not be charging such fees!)

Apart from this, even ICAI expects that the articles / assistants be provided reimbursement. So you will find such thing in Peer review circular of ICAI:
http://www.icai.org/new_post.html?post_id=280&c_id=218

Also, different Banks / Govt organisations may provide for reimbursement to audit assistants – but then these may not often be passed on to the articles. Or even if some CAs pass on these – they may be less than what was reimbursed to them by the organisation! But then such things are matter of discretion of the Principal.

ICAI rules only provide that the Article be paid minimum of stipend as specified by ICAI. If a CA is doing that s/he is on good side of law!

As for guidance plz go through:

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

and

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

ie. technically one can do secondment under 3 CAs – in three different periods of 4 months each – however that is not practically feasible.

On the other hand, one can go for one year secondment with a single CA

The reason being that in bigger firm in the final year of training, it may be problem for you to get leave for exams.

As such I would suggest, you read http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-please-suggest-firm-to-do-articleship and make a similar checklist for yourself. Then make one column each for your shortlisted firms. Thereafter against each criteria give marks 1 to 10 based on your evaluation. The column that gets the most marks – join that firm. That would make your firm selection process more objective, and also clear your dilemmas.

1) There have been toppers of CA Final (I think it was within the last four exams) – that the one who came first was undergoing articleship in PwC and appeared in exam while doing articleship

2) The work at smaller firm or bigger firm would require the same amount of your time. Do you think that if you are in Big4 vis-a-vis a small firm, the time required to fill a Company return would be more in Big4 and less in smaller firm? Or for that matter that in doing an audit – if you are in smaller firm, you would skip steps and due diligence of compliance to A/c standards and audit standards?

So, how can you think that you would “get” time in small firm and no time in big firm?

Small and Big is only a generality in terms of fees that a firm generates. That has nothing to do with work content.

As for your other question on transfer, read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-8-transfer-from-one-principal-to-another

I would suggest, you can go for industrial training in the third year of training. read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-11-industrial-training

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

and

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

“Enough time for studies” is something that you will have to squeeze out. “Good exposure” is again a matter of relative perception.

From your situation, I would suggest go for Jaipur – which has now developed to be a national CA center – so you would get good exposure, and there is also coaching facilities available there – and that is apart from you would be able to go to home town easily whenever required.

(Plz remember that work of a CA whether in Ajmer or Jaipur or Mumbai would be the same – as the A/c std, Audit Std, Tax laws, Corporate laws – all these are same – and they have to follow the same procedures at all the places – the only difference is that in some firms – they would be mostly talking in English and wearing suit and tie – so if that makes it a good firm, I dont know!)

I would suggest you should search for a “good” Principal rather than the tags – as a CA who is also a good person, would provide you with good mentoring.

i resident of ajmer,rajasthan really need an advice. i had passed cbse 12 commerce with 89.6% in may 2009 and having a good track record throughout my school life and also passed the cpt exam in first attempt by scoring 153/200 in june 2009. but unforunately due some family problems i was not able to prepare for ca inter n gave only first group in may2010 and i was failed in ipcc group-1 n only scored 191/400 in may 2010 with exemption in accontancy.now i have given both groups in nov 2010 n i am a bit confident to clear first group now. so now in front of me the question of articleship arises.
sir, i would like to know that whether i should go for articleship in mumbai where they provide good exposure to us but they consume our whole day for their work and not giving enough time for studies n coaching or to go for ajmer or jaipur where there is less workload.i also have relative ca in ajmer where i could do articleship.
sir i am prepared for the hardwork but a bit confused in whether to go for mumbai or for ajmer or jaipur as i am willing to pass my ca final in first attempt only .also i would like to know that is articleship from good firm is necessary for getting good jobs.
sir please help me out…

http://wirc-icai.org/council-members.aspx

As your Principal has no objection, ask him if he knows any of them, so that would make your case easier.

As you are in Mumbai, it should make your case easier to pursue.

Transfer procedure is at:
http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-8-transfer-from-one-principal-to-another

Divya shroff

As for Baharain, the official website of ICAI Bahrain chapter is:

http://www.bahrain-icai.org/

The list of current management committee (along with their email & phone) is located at:

http://bahrain-icai.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93&Itemid=89

The address and contact of ICAI Bahrain is at:

http://bahrain-icai.org/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=1&Itemid=56

The revised guideline for articleship abroad issued by ICAI is at:

http://icai.org/new_post.html?post_id=6610&c_id=219

The important thing to remember is that the CA Partner of Firms as well as CA who are Paid Assistants /Employees in such Firms (including Foreign Firms – fulfilling specified conditions) are also eligible to give articleship training. So do read the FAQ carefully.

Good Luck

As for whether its good – it would really depend on what you want to do in life. Because CA is basically a localised course. If one wants to go for Practice in India, then it has the statutory provisions – other than that it is a just any other accounting degree – and in foreign countries of Europe and America, CA of ICAI is hardly known! If your aim in life is to settle in country like UK, and you have the means – then better go for ICAEW (the CA of England & Wales) rather than complicating matters with doing articleship with ICAI in London! Or even do courses like CPA which are more recognised internationally.

http://www.icai.org/new_post.html?post_id=6610&c_id=219

FAQ relating to articleship abroad:

http://220.227.161.86/20889faq_announ11847.pdf

For example, take a Big4 – PwC which is a Private Company. The audit firms attached to it go by the name of “Price Waterhouse” and “Lovelock Lewis”. Now these are NOT just two firms. For example go to:

http://220.227.161.82/lof_name.asp

and type “price waterhouse” – you will get the idea.

I would suggest that you also read :

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

and

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

Thanking You for giving your valuable time for our queries……

and

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

and also

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

I think these should be enough for you to get an idea

I also tried hard earlier to make contact with but could’nt…I got a chance now.

Plz Sir suggest something

But then, I guess, ICAI always have discretion to allow transfer – so you can give it a shot.

2) 160 days of leave would make your excess leave to be 5 days – considering if you do not take any more leave!. So if your current articleship ends on 8th Apr 2012, you will have to put in an extra 5 days of articleship. If this is the case, then you can appear in the May 2011 exam.

Read point 2A of http://220.227.161.86/20131announ060810b.pdf

3) If you take my suggestion, since you are in final, you should continue with articleship under the current principal for a few more months upto mid apr 2011, and then take termination for industrial training. Dont stress your mind for the May 2011, but prepare for Nov 2011. In such situation, you would have enough time to prepare for the exams, and also you would have done with all the formalities by then. Also, during the intervening time (ie.before Apr 2011) finish up with GMCS. So that would mean you will be attending GMCS for 15 days and that would be counted part of articleship.

For Indian situation you can read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

i wanted to know the list of CA firms in Dubai and London which provide articleship. I also wanted to know the requirements for getting into such firms.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/articleship-training-the-areas-of-training/

and as i am just a beginner in this field so can you please tell me the other fields in which an article may get exposure.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/11/03/ca-articleship-how-to-search-for-firms-for-training/

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/comment-page-10/#comment-733

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-1-the-big-four

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/#toc-11-industrial-training

1) follow the Form 120 route http://220.227.161.86/15697form_service_cert_new.pdf Even in such case you should have a ‘valid’ reason.

2) Put in a complaint based on your cited reason (with complete details) to President ICAI and BOS. Send written letter and also email.

3) Go and meet central council member from Maharashtra and discuss your case with them. Usually if Central Council members want, then they can get the things done very fast.

http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=1525&c_id=250

The problem with ICAI is that in many instances, it has made very good rules – in practice they seem to be of theoretical value – and though the above routes may work – they may as well not work ! And even if they work they may take very long time to get resolved.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/#toc-11-position-of-the-principal-member-of-the-institute

I would also suggest, that if you are not enrolled for any other course other than CA why not enroll for a course like CWA or CS (which is permitted as per ICAI rules)? The good thing about these courses is that – if you are working in areas like accounts / tax etc in specified kind of organisations (not CA Firms), then their practical training can be set off with work experience.

There are certain situations in life – like yours, where practicality demands opening of newer options. Afterall life has to move ahead.

Sir i really accept your advice but there is a problem in that. My boss is really not at all good. The way he has talked & behaved with my father & relative they are sacred and they will never send me back to Pune to work with him. Even my present ca had a talk with him. My present ca is also of the view that he is not even worth to have a talk with him. Sir i had even requested him to terminate my entrie articleship but he is not giving me termination also. Plz guide me Sir.

http://nliu.com/new/nliu.pdf

or

http://www.nujs.edu/nujs-campus-recruitment.html

Good Luck

I am here to bother you yet again. please suggest me some good companies in NCR Region which have strong in house cell and offer good pay packages for LAW+CS profile.

Sorry for any kind of botheration.

thanks a lot
pallavi

As for your question, the MoU definitely seems to be implemented and working. I would suggest you check out IGNOU website: http://www.ignou.ac.in/academic_prog-2010/programmes_final1.htm

For the Academic year 2010, the ICAI-MoU graduation course is at serial 231 and the MCom course is at 226

I would suggest you take the print out relevant extract of the IGNOU page and then go to the study center.

Perhaps you can also talk to IGNOU helpline numbers. http://www.ignou.ac.in/mail.asp

I guess those CA who give dummy are also the ones who themselves have taken dummy. Such CA also bring disrepute to the profession.

From the new rules it seems you should be able to appear in finals during last 12 months of training. Plz refer to the ICAI announcement for details -

http://220.227.161.86/20132announ060810c.pdf

http://220.227.161.86/20131announ060810b.pdf

Waiting for your precious reply.

Regards,
Devangi

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/07/30/motivation-for-success-in-ca-exams-cases-of-real-cas/

i want to know the procedure to get admission in big4 (PWC DELHI). what is the basic requirement for getting admission in big4.

Reply by Anup: Plz read this: http://indiapoint.net/ca/before-you-rush/

Even as such no practical can be without theory eg. If you get a question to do Cash Flow, you need to know the AS3 – and the structure of it. So, if they ask a question of theory relating to that – will it be difficult for you ?

As for attempting exam with one group or two group – that depends on ones ability. Basically the problem happens for lack of time for revision. If one can manage it – then two groups are good enough.

Currently Big4 prefer those who have cleared both groups in first attempt. However, there are other big firms that may not put such restrictions.

However dont go by ‘big’, but try to find a ‘good’ CA who has mentoring abilities – and has work that would give you exposure to different aspects of accounts / audit / tax / consultancy. Talk in your study / coaching circle with those who are doing articleship or have already finished articleship. Go and meet few CAs to assess the thing for yourself.

As to your other part – that in your organisation transfer is not allowed – do you mean transfer within departments or termination of articleship?

If you mean termination of articleship – then please remember that no CA / CA Firm can over-ride the rules of articleship specified by ICAI. The first rule that applies to you is that of ICAI. You cannot be bound by any other subsidiary rule that is violative of the rule of ICAI. If there is such violative subsidiary rule – then such rule is void.

Currently, (from Aug 2010), any Article can take transfer in the first year of articleship without assigning any reason: http://icai.org/resource_file/19592announ10698.pdf

So you can get transfer. If there is any problems, you can make written representation to the BOS and President ICAI

I have a query, Right now I am doing article ship in one Big 4 , i have completed near about 8 months but I got only one exposure in Statutory audit last April 2010. Since then I am Idle and not getting any projects there after.My manager is not willing to talk to me over this matter. I am quite worried over this matter. Please suggest me what to do. In our organization transfer is not allowed.

Reply by Anup: Plz read the article and previous comments. आप पहले आर्टिकल पढिये – पूरी रामायन लिखी है ।

You may also like to read: http://indiapoint.net/ca/before-you-rush/

A reason for this is also because, the remuneration of such executives are largely linked to the turnover / business they generate for their company. Whereas, a CA in Practice cannot link his fees to Turnover of the auditee – that would be Professional Misconduct.

As for MBA with CA, ICAI have arrangement with Bharthiar Univ (BU), whereby students can enroll with BU along with CA course. And in that papers passed in CA exams are counted towards exemption of BU courses. So, the PE2/PCC/IPCC level pass would count toward exemption in UG courses BCom / BBA, and the pass in Final level courses would count towards exemption in MCom / MBA course of BU.

http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=3863

http://220.227.161.86/19936advertisement_for_BU-ICAI.pdf

ICAI has similar arrangement with IGNOU (though not for MBA, but for BCom & MCom)

http://220.227.161.86/7535announ1482.pdf

and also with Netaji Subhash Open Univ, Kolkata

http://220.227.161.86/7606icai_bdp.pdf

However while ICAI has kept itself updated for BU, the latter ones IGNOU and NSOU, their latest status regarding their arrangement with ICAI is not known.

As to time between college end and start of office one hour gap should be there, else ICAI does not accept the form – that again from what I have seen. (Unless I guess, you can provide documentary evidence that your college and office are in the same building !)

Also Sir Can a principal of the college allow n sign form no. 112 even if the timings of the college are beyond 11AM using his discretionary powers?

Means Is it ok if I manage to get into any college where the principal is ready to sign the form showing less time than the actual college hours?

i cleared both groups of ipcc in may 2010. i am 2nd year bcom course.
i want to pursue cs with ca. i havn’t yet registered with icsi. i am planning to give cs foundation in june 2011.

is it that after tycom i can skip foundation and go for the executive level?
how about if want to pursue ca cs and later to mba finance part time.?
then which institutions give part time mba finance courses?

Also the timing of college should have a difference of at least an hour with that of the office timing. You cannot say that your college ends at 11 and you go to office at 11.

What I have seen in some cases, is that, as the Principals of colleges have discretionary powers to allow students for other activities – in case of articlesihp, they give relaxation in timing with riders that the student would have to attend extra classes for equal number of hours on holidays and leave period.

It does not matter whether you actually attend college or not – for ICAI its the paper that matters ! If you want relaxation – its only your college that can give you the relaxation as ICAI does not give any relaxation.

There is a way that is possible that if your city has any ‘regular’ morning or evening college. Then in such case your scholarship would also be retained and also the ICAI rule would also get fulfilled. Read point 10 of http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/

Do remember, that core of CA is about Accountancy and Audit. Whereas core of MBA (Finance) is about Finance – primarily dealing with Financial Markets. The difference is not just apparent but real.

Consequently you would find that financial firms who recruit from IIM would prefer candidates with Engg background with specialisation in Finance. The reason simply is that it is the training in logic and analytical abilities that engineering students get ingrained by their training. Most of the MBA Finance candidates would be taken up by the Financial companies – the good ones for trading and modelling, the others for marketing of financial products. You would not find MBA Finance in Accounting roles (its very rare) or in audit or taxation.

In contrast CA is about accounting and control function, and audit and tax functions. The problem with CA historically has been that it has been considered a closed statutory function – so functional areas like Financial Market, consultancy services like M&A etc were ignored and advertising was a big no no. However, ICAI is catching up in this direction. Now a days, CAs are also being taken up by financial companies. Even in Banks, now a days one can find CAs taking up executive positions (which were traditionally occupied by MBAs) as CAs are better equipped in audit, compliance, law and due diligence.

If you look at the organisation of a consultancy firm – there are different divisions – the MCS (mngt consultancy services), direct & indirect taxation, internal audit & fraud detection, etc, the MBAs gets hired for the MCS – whereas for the CA the variety of choices is larger.

While MBA is a general degree, CA is a specialised degree. In the multivariate field of Finance, at present CA as a course provides the widest exposure. The area it is lacking is proper classroom teaching. Moreover articles are exposed to differeing experiences – which lead to a differentials even among them, compared to MBA which is structured with classroom and two months of practical exposure.

There cannot be a clear answer to which is better – a ranker CA or an IIM grad. However, I can say, that a ranker CA has a wider choice of career (tax, audit, accountancy, finance, etc), whereas, IIM Fin grad do not enjoy such choice.

As for trends of remuneration, if you leave the extremes like a handful of candidates who get tons of lakhs or crores, the average entry level salaries (still) for CAs is less than IIM grad. This is primarily because of brand, and you can always be sure that when it comes to marketing MBAs are far ahead than a CA would ever be!

I have given IPCC may 2010 n cleared both groups. Now my articleship is starting. Now is it compulsory to fill form 112 now?

Actually the problem is I am getting CBSE scholarship of Rs. 70,000/- in insatllments like 10,000 each yr for 3 years of Bachelor degree and after that Rs. 20,000 each year for 2 yrs of post graduation degree with a stipulation that I must join the course as a regular student. I am now in Bcom 2nd year as a regular student. Still we dont need to attend any class even a single day. But now in articleship form no 112 has to be signed by the principal of our college who refused to sign the form for college timings before 11 AM in the morning. Now if I go for private then I would loose Rs. 60,000 scholarship. Now what to do? Is there any way out? Anyhow if I manage to do 2nd year regular then from 3rd year I’ll join a college where the timings are according to ICAI rules.

Please suggest what to do?

(Go through previous comments – some of the students who are joining Big4 as articled trainees have also posted their questions)

I recently cleared my CPT and will appear for ipcc in may 2011. I want to know whether i should give both the groups or only 1st group.

Another thing i want to ask is that do these big 4 take only those students for articleship who have given both the groups or they take those also who have given only 1st group

I’ll be really grateful to you if you can guide me on this.

Thanx

Usually those who have fancy for corporate lifestyle prefer employment. But basically CA course is meant for producing a Practitioner rather than an employee. To be an employee – even in the accounts / finance dept. one does not need to be a CA. http://indiapoint.net/ca/2009/04/21/cwa-a-better-career-option/

Thank you Sir for your guidance.

One more thing I want to ask. Which is better as per your opinion Practice or Employment?

If I want to go for practice in a comparatively small city (my hometown) then is it right to do articleship in tax department in any of the Big4 or should I go for a middle size firm?

Of-course when one is a CA and doing audit, finalising balance sheets and audit reports – it becomes exciting.

At a personal level, I have always found tax work more intellectually stimulating than audit.

what is your opinion ?

As for the issue of training under relative – the only negative is that usually it hampers development of professionalism. So if you are joining a relative CA, then be on your guard that your training does not become ‘ghar ki baat’

As for passing exams and work – there is no direct linkage as such because there has been toppers from such firms – students who were undergoing articleship.

Whether it be big or small firm, or big or small city, if you are doing your articleship properly – then you would always be hardpressed for time.

Your ‘strategy’ is good except that you would be eligible to appear in finals in last six months. So assuming you pass in first attempt, no firm would take you in last four months of articleship. So in such case you would be directly entering the job market.

plz help me out.

As for your second thought press the delete button.

Good Luck.

1- sir i have applied in KPMG too and today i got recruited in KPMG too with tax department now tell me is your above ANS would remain same?

2- sir what i was thinking is that see i have no hurry to become a chartered accountant so i was thinking that for the first two years i join a mid-size firm and after getting exposures in different different fields by hard work, and than i join KPMG or delloits in a field which i liked the most and in which i have interest and suppose at that time if KPMG or delloits would not offer me that departement which i want than i will continue with my mid-size firm and after i passing CA final i will join them as a paid employee or else do things accordingly.

what do u suggest me sir in both the above cases

2) You cannot learn everything. Any CA including those who have done 30 years of practice would confess that they know barely 30 % of things – the rest they are still learning at age of 50 or 60 even though they are in active practice for so many years!

So, if you want to learn everything – then you are for big disappointment !

3) If you did training from Delloit with exposure only in audit – the worst that can happen is that you would get employment offers only in audit ! But then life is not about thinking about worst – its hope that keeps one alive.

4) I would go for a mid-size firm where one can get exposure to different fields (viz. audit – statutory, internal, with different sectors; taxation – income tax, central excise, service tax, efiling, drafting of cases; company matters relating to ROC – efiling, company formation, return filing etc; management consultancy – projects for bank loans, restructuring exercise etc; information tech – like setting up accounting systems, salary systems etc.)

(For example, it was really a matter of great satisfaction to know that for one of the organisation, the salary payment system that I created as an article – that same system was still being used even after four years!. That organisation happened to have nearly 200 employees!)

5) It really depends on what kind of work you are assigned. There have been cases where students kept on doing only vouching well into their second year of training in big firms! But if you get a good principal, may be they can introduce you to the real audit techniques which the partners employ!

However, audit is not just techniqes, but primarily a mental attitude of looking at things. For example, even though my main exposure to various different fields happened in a mid-size firm (including best exposure in Income Tax & Systems, including attending different seminars of Income Tax!) – the way audit is actually done – I learnt under my third Principal who happened to have a Proprietorship firm! Unless you have ‘that’ attitude of looking at things – all audit techniques would fail. And examples are not far off – take Satyam – their internal auditors won the best auditors award from the Institute of Internal Auditors (IIA) of USA – as they were using the techniques developed by IIA. But then its everyones guess as to what they were auditing! And Satyam had all the things like Audit Committes, Independent Directors, and other different compliances in place!

I would suggest since ICAI has given first year relaxation in transfer without restriction, join Delloit for audit – see it for at least six months – and if things work in your favour stick to it, but if you find that things are not moving as per your likings then take transfer to mid-size firm.

Good Luck

1- i want the best exposures
2- i want to learn everything
3- what are the possibilities of getting job and a good package in case i did articleship from a mid-size firm with a very good exposure in all the fields and in case i did it from delloits with a good exposure in statutory audit…?
4- from the view of growth in job in both d cases?
5- getting exposure in statutory audit from mid-size firm is as same as getting it from delloits?

The thing simply is that someone who has seen the work procedures – they take lesser time to get trained and get assimilated in the work procedures of the company. That is the only reason.

Having family that has little knowledge of this field is definitely a minus – they would always say – “accounting mein kya rakha hain? yeh to koi bhi kar lega!”

As far as professionalism is concerned – its a personal attribute – even the dabbawalas of Mumbai are considered so professional that they have been given six sigma certification in quality. And these dabbawalas are not even matriculates. So, professionalism is a personal attitude towards work – so that basically depends on you as to what is your outlook to work.

The rules of termination and re-registration is the same for all candidates – whether they take transfer within India or take transfer abroad.

Kathmandu is also one of the center of exam of ICAI – so I guess you wont have any problems.

(read previous comments for details of forms and transfer)

Thank you…

I want to do articleship from jammu only (my hometown) but there are only few CA firms…more of sole proprietor…my father is interested in getting me enrolled wih his CA only (a sole prop.)…..i m really confused whether to join a CA firm or sole prop.

i m willing to do hard work and want to gain practical knowledge……..also suggest me that doing articleship from jammu (a small town) thus a little exposure than other students of India …..will it help me in passing CA Final Exam which are said to be more practical than inter exams?

Also doing from jammu- my hometown….will help me in getting the professional attitude, practical knowledge, so called exposure to pass my CA final exams later on and be a rank holder in the exams ….help & suggest me….i want join a company as an auditor rather than opening a office!

plz help me out me & my family has very little knowledge about this?

thanking u in adv.

Despite that you are studying in best commerce college of the country, the best course in field of commerce is still considered to be CA run by ICAI. The thing is which one you want B.Com / MCom or a professional qualification like CA ?

Also, the field of TP is among the best that one can get in articleship. You would be dealing with MNCs and huge manufacturing concerns from day one.

Articleship in TP at PWC is anyday more preferable than any college in India.

I would also add, that dont think that middle firm would give you any concession – and also – outstation audits form a good part of work of middle firms. So, in articleship you have no respite! So grab the best offer you have.

Good Luck.

I’m confused whether to go for articleship at PWC where I am given the department of “Transfer Pricing” or go for medium size firms. My college demands alot of attendance and if I choose Big Four firm (PWC), then I may be sent to neighbouring cities and may have to be absent at college.

What should I do ? On one hand hand I have PWC, on the other hand my college and all other comforts ?

Reply by Anup: Plz read previous comments.

1) Eventhough you have cleared IPCC in first attempt, your marks are not good enough. So your saying “…assuming studying is not a big issue…” seems to show that you are bit overconfident. The CA Final is a completely different game. So dont think that its easy. In CA course entry is easy, exit is difficult.

2) There is mismatch in your aspirations viz. “…I am more interested to be in my hometown with my family…” and “…I am interested to prepare for CAT 2011…” So would that mean that IIM would come to your hometown to enroll you as candidate? And suppose even if you join IIM, is there any job scope for IIM graduate at your home town?

3) As a CA in Practice, you can definitely Practice at your hometown.

4) Perhaps you should really ask – why you are so attached with your family? Would it help your family if you stay at home town. Or you can go out earn better, and achieve better position in life – if doing that would help your family.

5) In terms of earning – it is definitely the employment where one earns more and earns early. Most CAs in practice have a long gestation period (unless they happen to belong to CA Practice families where the firm was set up by their grandfather!). The first generation CAs usually take upto 6 to 10 years to be really properly settled if they are in practice. And many of the CAs in Practice have some sort of side business in name of family members!

Perhaps instead of Mumbai – which is fairly far from your hometown – why dont you explore places like Jaipur and Udaipur? These are pretty good places for taking articleship training – and are good industrial / commercial hubs – so even if you want to go for employment later on – you can make good contacts in such places. And I guess Jaipur also has good coaching facilities for CA and other competitive exams.

Good Luck

I want to take an advice. I have given CBSE 12th commerce with 94.2% in 2009. After that I gave CPT in june 2009 & cleared it with 163 marks. Finally I gave IPCC both groups this May 2010 & cleared both the groups with 210/400 marks in 1st group & 150/300 marks in 2nd group.

Sir the confusion is whether I should go Mumbai for Articleship in big firms or Should I join in a small firm in my hometown Ajmer(Rajasthan)?

I know the answer to this question somehow depends on our own choice to go for practice or service after CA. There is no scope for service in Ajmer. But I dont know what to go for. Is there more scope in practice (in terms of earning)?

As I am more interested to be in my hometown with my family? (That is the main problem due to which I am confused a lot)

Also I am interested to prepare for CAT 2011 for IIM.

Assuming that studying is not a big issue. I can handle it. But for future what to do? what to go for practice or service? and where to take articleship from?

Thank You

could you please suggest me a few middle firms of pune for articleship so that i can get knowledge about all the fields and also tell me what is the last date for registration for final.

also what is the permitted leave during three years of practical training.

These are in various circulars and student manual. Go through previous comments (they have links to appropriate files) or explore the ICAI website.

But these are the rules in theory – no Principal adheres to these rules in words or substance.

i would just like to know that whether we can take transfer within 1 year?
and
i would like to refer through the rules set by ICAI for ca articleship trainees bout timings and leave for tybcom and ca final?
please let me know the link or information about this.

Transfer during articleship period is through Form 109 that has to be filled in triplicate (one each with candidate / principal / sent to RO). The RO sends a termination letter. However you dont have to wait for it, and meanwhile take re-registration with another Principal.

The procedure of re-registraiton is exactly the same as articleship in first instance (Form 103 and Form 102), except that there is no fees to be sent to institute. The period in re-registration is the balance period.

So why waste time in training when you can join work / employment directly?

http://www.icsi.edu/Member/CSRegulations/tabid/1590/Default.aspx

http://www.icsi.edu/WebModules/Member/CS%20Regulation%201982.zip

Check Regulations 48, 50, 51, 52 for exemption details for exemption from CS Practical Training.

It includes criteria like: (among others)

1) one year experience as Asstt Secy / Dep Secy or three years experience as Secretarial Officer / Executive in Secretarial Dept in Organisation with Paid Up Capital of 25 lakhs or Gross Fixed Assets of Rs. 50 lakhs or in any PSU / Bank / Autonomous / Statutory body.

2) Three years practice as CA / CWA having carried out Audits or management consultancy service

3) Advocate with three years practice at High Court or adviser to company with Paid Up Capital of 25 lakhs or Gross Fixed Assets of Rs. 50 lakhs or in any PSU / Bank / Autonomous / Statutory body.

4) Three years experience as executive or four years experience as assistant in secretarial / administration / accounts / finance / legal department of company with Paid Up Capital of 25 lakhs or Gross Fixed Assets of Rs. 50 lakhs or in any PSU / Bank / Autonomous / Statutory body.

But cant say on the issue as the rules may have undergone change.

You can do the 15 months training in the companies of your choice like: Pepsi, KPMG, ONGC, Nestle, DLF etc etc. All these are empaneled with ICSI to impart the 15 months training.

Checkout the ICSI link:
http://www.icsi.edu/WebModules/icsiweb/works/training/listcompanies.asp

In the box type the name of the company and the drop down box for MT or PT – and hit search – all contact details etc are provided there.

Any company like these is good enough – the point is you should be able to get entry in any of these. Often its not the student’s choice – but the choice of availability. Its like there can be a best singer of ones choice – but then whether it be Michael Jackson, Madonna, Lata Mageshkar, Kishor Kumar / etc all are best. So is the case with companies.

I enquired with the CS Chapter and they say that i will have to complete 15 months of articleship in order to get the degree.

Moreover, i did refer to the link you had given to see which all companies i can do my articleship with. But i have still not been able to zero down the firms which are the best for CS Articleship. Even online a lot of information is available for CA Articleship but hardly any for CS Articleship.

i would want to work in a big company like KPMG OR PEPSI. please guide me as to which firms i should apply to.

thnks once again..
pallavi

See point (10) of http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/

Decide as per your situation as to what is best – but do articleship happily and with sincerity, and also do not neglect studies during the three year period.

My genuine fear is of leaving family, facing hardships, getting less time for self studies and ultimately end up realising that I have got nothing worthy. I cannot go to mumbai because of family reasons. In Udaipur, I will have much more time for studies but i doubt if i will get corporate exposure here.

Though there are different kinds of audit – statutory / internal / tax audit / VAT audit / etc. The techniques applied are same. However one kind of audit should not really be any problem – because it does not matter.

What matters is the variety of enterprises belonging to different sectors that you audit. So audit of an NGO / Provident Fund / manufacturing company / finance company would be an altogether different experience. It is this experience that matters.

As such Big4 is still the place where you learn the best auditing practices. This is also useful as Big4 have inhouse training facilities through periodic lectures etc.

i have giving my interviews in midsize firms and big firms. i have been even called for interview in one of the big4. i wish to go in audit field and mostly go in employment after being a ca. but then i just dont want to stick doing just one kind of audit in 3 yrs of articleship. if i pass out in my interview with big4, would it be beneficial if i join big4 according to my requirements?

If your aim is to be a legal advisor – dont waste your time in MBA. A qualification of LLB + CS is extremely good. An MBA to that would only be an unnecessary diversion.

I would suggest join a legal consultancy firm that deals with economic laws. In fact such firms deal with things like M&A, Valuation, Patents etc. The best place to get a list of such firms would be placement brochures from institutions like National Law School Bangalore etc. Such brochures are usually available online.

Infact you can start with salary like 7 to 8 lakh +. So don’t waste time on MBA. Adding divergent qualifications is not Professionally good.

Good Luck !

you have actually helped me clear all my doubts. Sir, I am actually a law student, final year law (5 years-BSL LLB) from Pune University. I am pursuing CS along with law. My actual aim is to get through CAT and pursue MBA from the first cluster b-school. Therefore, i wish to take work experience before pursuing MBA, as lately a lot of importance is being given to work ex.

so what you are suggesting is that i should take up employment rather than articleship in a corporate house? In that case would my CS degree be complete? And anyways i dont intend to practice as a CS. Eventually, after finishing with MBA, I want to be a legal advisor in a big corporation house.

please suggest me what to do. And which all companies i should apply to for CS employment. My profile till now is BSL LLB (5 YEARS), major in corporate law, CS and diploma in mergers and acquisition. I would want to pursue MBA in Finance.

please suggest me what to do and which all corporations i should apply to. I have zeroed on a few which are PEPSI co, KPMG, ONGC, BHEL, NESTLE, PVR, GE MONEY, DLF. please let me know which one of these do you think will be the best for me.

thanks a lot
pallavi

The supplementary deed in duplicate along with Form No. 108 for the period already served, should be sent so as to reach the office of institute within 60 days of expiry of the normal terms of articles.

This procedure is valid only if there is no break ie. you are continuing articleship with the same Principal.

Since you have not sent these forms within 60 days, you would be required to send:
1) Application for condonation of delay (get it forwarded by your Principal)
2) Condonation fees of Rs 300

As for change, it depends on the firms policy from time to time and also on vacancies arising. Its not that audit and tax is completely divorced – because there is good amount of coordination that is required between the two areas.

Usually vacancies in tax is limited and considered more prestigious. As for audit, any firm would be very happy if anyone wants to take training in audit. This is because audit often means on-site audit involving long duration tours outside – and also odd hours of work depending on client stipulations.

As for interview, usually basic questions of subject is asked. If you show interest in certain field, you may even be asked current developments in that. Usually you should be able to reply at least two-three meaningful points to a question. If you have accounting standards, then that is also important area.

Those taking interview know that you are beginning a training – you are not really supposed to know ‘tough’ questions.

also regarding the interview,what questions do they ask,are they tough or basic questions only.

As for IFRS – the thing is that it is mandatory for all listed companies from Apr 2011. So, something that is compulsory for all – is that any advantage? Moreover being an article in Big4 – you would not be finalising balance sheets – you would only be vouching and collecting data.

We live by perspectives. In the end, its your choice of how you see the thing suitable for yourself. Good Luck.

However if given a choice in taxation which division should i preferably opt for among corporate taxation, indirect tax, international tax etc in the Big 4.

I intend to work abroad also so would having had worked in tax be a limiting factor as wouldn’t I primarily be dealing in Indian Taxation Laws only?

In audit the division being offered to me is IFRS, so keeping the present trends in mind would choosing tax over it still be a favourable decision?

In audit, you would be doing audit of clients – offsite or onsite. There may be lot of travel involved. And depending on the hierarchy, and the way the Firm works, you may or may not learn much! http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/comment-page-7/#comment-453

Without doubt, if its the offer of taxation, grab it. Those who know taxation well, can also do audit in a better way – but its not true the other way round!

I have an offer in taxation deptt of one of the big 4′s and Audit in another for my articleship. Can you plz tell me the nature of the jobs involved and the work profile in each of the 2 divisions.

I have just cleared my IPCC.

From what you have written, I can understand:

1) You have NOT completed articleship from Govt Company – as you were not doing any industrial training.

2) You have completed your articleship from CA Firm – and your Principal had assigned you to a work, where the client happened to be a Govt Company.

Now the point is you were bound by the rules of your CA Firm. And it seems to me, that since the Govt Company was having Saturday off, you also went off on Saturday and did not go to the office of your Principal. This has led to your having excess leave.

However, the thing to consider is – whether your work at the client location was 35 hours or more per week? Did you spend on an average more than 7 hours a day on the accounting work (excluding lunch hours) at the client location?

If your answer is affirmative, then there is no excess leave. There is ICAI circular on such issues: http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=3220&c_id=240

So, basically its not the number of days you attend office – but number of hours you work in a week. Talk to your Principal to resolve the issue amicably. It would even be good, if you have any evidence relating to number of hours you attended the client office for the accounting work.

As such to your queries: Since you have passed PE-2, the articleship period would be 3 years. Secondment is min for 4 months and max for one year. So, in a way you can do secondment under max 2 other CAs. Matters relating to current fees you will have to check from the institute.

I cleared my PE-II in Nov. 2007 and CS Final in Dec 2007. I enrolled for CS Management Training as it was for 15 months as compared to CA which was for 3 1/2 years. I am now a member of ICSI and meanwhile have completed 2 yrs of LL.B.

My queries are:

1. What is the present duration of CA Articleship applicable to me?
2. What is the current fees for CA Final course?
3. Can a secondment be taken more than once during the period of Articleship?
4. Is there any fees entailed towards enrollment as an Articled Clerk

I am based in Bombay. I do not wish to go for dummy articleship.

Your help, if it comes my way, is highly appreciated.

http://www.icsi.edu:8888/Pcsareg/list15.aspx

http://www.icsi.edu/WebModules/icsiweb/works/training/listcompanies.asp

I am not too conversant with CS, but as far as I know, one can be an LCS after passing CS Final exams, and join employment directly in that line. And later on, one can get exemption from the training to get the ACS qualification. When one can earn in employment, why waste time in training? … unless you wish to do CS practice – where training is compulsory as only ACS can do Practice.

Thanks a lot
Pallavi

http://www.icai.org/resource_file/201announ1125a.pdf

great article on articleship.

However, just check up abt the number of articles allowed table.

Yes, good communication skills and extra-curricular activities are definitely a plus. Infact, even ICAI holds such activities for its students at various levels – branch/region/national every year.

i have 90%+ academic record
air 16 in cpt
i can communicate with people easily ( winner of debate competitions at district level)
do the above things would be considered?

The training of CA and CS are different. There is no arrangement between ICAI and ICSI for exemption in any field of study or training.

As an aside, I am still not able to understand as to why students go for multiple qualification – or what advantage they derive. Because, if one wants to practice one can do practice in only one field – even if one holds multiple qualifications. Even in employment, the ‘older’ days are now gone where one could hold multiple roles. Now a days the roles of a CS and the CFO have become more specialised. Maybe a few small companies try to take advantage – but from student and professional perspective, holding multiple qualifications is pretty meaningless.

However, if you have not passed your inter, then you can try for Secondment. Secondment can be taken for minimum 4 months and max one year. The institute has only to be sent a specified form – and no questions are asked.

But regarding termination, the problem in your case is, that even if your Principal gives you termination and signs Form 109, ICAI will not accept it!

As per news reports (July 2010), ICAI is being lenient for giving transfer in first year of articleship, but not in 2nd and 3rd year of articleship. It has specified certain conditions – only under which it would approve transfer. Also, before sending Form 109, approval has to be taken from the institute. You can check details in Point 12 of http://indiapoint.net/ca/2010/06/15/ca-articleship-latest-changes/

And as such, you will have to take articleship training for the period by which you are on excess leave. So that means, if you join back on 1-8-2010. Then your date of termination would be 14-10-2011.

However you can adjust the balance entitled leave for the intervening period. So, for example if you are doing three year articleship, and till 1-8-2009 you have taken no leave. Then you can adjust your entitled leave – that comes to 155 days. So, if suppose you join back on 1-8-2010, and you take no leave till completion of your training, then your articleship date would end on 10-05-2011.

Without doubt – you should go for a career in CS. And take, my advice if you focus on one thing, then your chances of success is much greater. Also, the demand for CS in industry is much greater now a days.

If you really want to add the CA qualification, just finish off the articleship, then there is no time limit for appearing in the exams. You can always appear in the exams later on. You can appear in the exams while in job.

sir i want guidence from you. i have cleared cpt in june 2007, and my 3 years tranning is completed, my pcc is not yet cleared, i have given exams in may 10, result awaited. i have completed my b.com in 2007, also completed cs course. sir where should i go? my tranning would be over in dec.10, and if i got cleared in this pcc attempt, my final exams would be held in may 10.(not sure,it would be nov 10), sir i have done tranning in the field of hospitality and banking sector only,, still i have 6 month left, i want to do tranning in other areas,for which my ca had granted permission for secondment.
sir after 6 month my ca tranning will be over, shall i start cs tranning after it.
and the point of delimma is if my pcc result is not favourable, then my next attempt would be in nov.10, and so as my final attempt would be shifted. what sould i do, continue with ca or, opt for cs, ?
also i have completed my llb. 2nd year., i am really in a confusion state, whether i should continue with ca, or not.

1) Medical grounds should be such that warrant termination of Articleship (ie. ICAI should be satisfied about the seriousness of illness)
2) Medical grounds should be such that it requires discontinuance of articles for a minimum period of three months
3) Medical certificate has to be issued from Government Hospital
4) Re-registration of articles cannot be done for at least three months from date of termination.

I would say, you should not misuse this clause – unless its a serious illness. ‘Some problem’ can always be overcome.

My friend is facing some problem so I want to know the procedure of taking transfer on the medical ground.

I would still suggest that try to convince your current Principal to give you Secondment to Gandhinagar. The secondment can be done for a period upto one year (minimum 4 months). Now a days, even the stipend is paid by the CA under whom secondment is done (Previously, it was the Principal who had to pay!). I guess one year is good enough period – thereafter you can always come up with certain reasons to get a transfer.

For secondment only a simple form of intimation is to be sent to ICAI – and no questions is asked!

http://www.icai.org/resource_file/7526form_secondment_articles.pdf

Thanks for replying and guiding me.
I think this should not be done but anyways i have to manage or have to leave further studies.As this my final stage of C.A i feel really bad if my problem will not get solved. Now lets see what happen.

Is there any option if my current principal terminate me by giving some reason and then i can start my articleship at gandhinager by following any procedure?

Regards,
Devangi

However, if they are saying that they have executed the transfer, then there is no option but to take their word for it. Moreover, since the transfer / re-registration has taken place in May – it is impossible under present rules to get another transfer.

First thing is, get your re-registration papers and regularise your articleship.

Your options gets restricted to: 1) Secondment and, 2) if you are in finals, then in third year of training you can shift to industrial training.

Try to see if you can adjust with your current principal (because rarely if anyone is happy during articleship). A ‘bad’ or ‘rude’ principal is really a matter of perception – and cannot form any basis of transfer. Else you will have to find some loophole in the transfer rules like medical reason etc. but then such a course of action is not recommended by me unless its genuine.

Today i went to the vadodara institute and first the assistant secratory reply me very rudly but then after knowing my a little of my case he called to Ms.Geeta who give me direct confirmation that my re registration has been done and letter has been dispatched for the samemay be April ending or May ending then i ask her that if the latter has been dispatched lets take on May ending then also it should be reached to me then as ASSi. Secratory called she replied me that ok we will submit it again to you.

Now the Assi. Secratory told me to writte on the spot latter about requesting my confirmation letter and after reading my letter he come to know that actually i dont want any transfer now then he told me like i have to wait for the confirmation and then i have apply for the next transfer with vaild reasons and again i have to wait for that confirmation.

So at the end of the day i came to know that my problem will not gonaa leave me.

So now whether i should go to the Mumbai institue directly and immediately to requesting them about not to proceed further and cancelled my transfer? whether they will give this favour or i have to wait only or do you have any other option?

Sir please guide me properly and thanks for giving me your precious time.

Regards,
Devangi

So, I guess the next logical step should be to get a letter from the institute that your transfer request has been cancelled or something like that. I guess you come under the Ahmedabad jurisdiction for your Gandhinagar articleship. Go there and meet the Dy Secy or Asstt Secy who is in-charge (dont talk to clerks). Talk to the responsible person, if he can issue a letter – something like more documents required to do the transfer. That would be clear indication that you are still at Gandhinagar. And since you wont be giving any documents – there would be no case of transfer!

Then you have to adjust this intervening period of training.

The best would be to adjust it against your entitled leave – no body gets harmed by that.

But you can also try to get your work adjusted as secondment. However, the intimation for secondment has to be sent to institute within 30 days of comencement of secondment – and minimum secondment period is 4 months. So talk to the institute, if they can condone the delay in submission of secondment intimation (for this you will have to manage the institute official as well as both the CA bosses!)

http://www.icai.org/resource_file/7526form_secondment_articles.pdf

Regarding your other question, only a responsible person (Dy Secy / Asstt Secy) can be sympathetic to your problems and solve the thing. You can talk with them on phone (if you can get a reference from an ‘active CA’ / council member, and a direct mobile number – that is the best) /or/ meet them directly (because your case is not usual). If it were usual, you could have got your work done even by email to Central Council members!

Thanks a lot for providing me this link. I am so happy that i am still register under the firm of my previous principal and now i think my all problem get solved.

THANKS A LOT SIR, I AM GONAA REMEMBER YOU FOR MY WHOLE LIFE SIR.

Can you tell up to what level institute can help i mean whether they can answer me about the status of my request latter for transfer and all that?

Waiting for your precious reply.

Regards,
Devangi

You can also check at the online database and infer whether your transfer has really been processed. Try the following link to check the data for both your Principals (it also contains details of articles undergoing training):

http://220.227.161.82/mem_card.asp

Thanks for replying and guiding me.

Sir i am aware of the announcement of 01-07-2009 and i have forwareded the latter with marriage certificate asking for permission of my transfer but i dont get the reply for the same from last 4 months and i have forwared form 109 without receiving the approval from the institute because as per my knowledge institute take 1 or 1.5 month for replying and my case was very clear about taking transfer on marriage basis so there is no matter for rejecting my request and as per this guidance of Samir sir who is sitting at the ahmedabad institute i have submited my requesting transfer letter and form 109 on the same day and haven’t got the reply till now for that.

Now as you said that it is not required to wait for the latter and can start articleship. i have done the same and started my articleship at vadodara. now as you know that i want transfer from vadodara as well, i dont know what to do in this situation.

waiting for your precious reply.

Regards,
Devangi

As far as I know, now a days transfers need to be approved by the institute prior to filling of form 109. The announcment of 01-07-2009 clearly says- “The articled assistants are required, in the first instance, to get the consent of the Institute before getting Form 109 signed by the Principal, in their own interest.”

So, my advice would be that you first check out with the institute, whether your transfer has really been approved.

You have written “i have already applied for transfer… and havn’t got the answer” It may so happen that if your transfer has not been approved, then your current articleship would be void!

Have you received the articleship re-registration letter from ICAI for your current articleshp at Vadodara?

Thanks a lot for giving me your really precious time. I think there is little misunderstanding about the basis on which i can take transfer, as i said above that i have allready applied for transfer (from gandhinager to vadodara) on the basis of marriage and haven’t got the answer for the same from the institute and now i want transfer from my recent principal(vadodara) because my principal and me both are facing problem with each other so now i dont have marriage base to take transfer form this C.A and i am stuck overhere. i had talk with my previous principal about this and he is ready to give me training but now i can not take transfer from vadodara.so i have decided to take termination from this C.A and restart my articleship some where else or with my previous principle.

so now please guide me for the same.
Waiting for your precious reply.

Regards,
Devangi

http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=4457&c_id=219
http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=4639&c_id=219
(read the above two announcements carefully)

As per your details, your case is eminently eligible for transfer under the clause:

“Marriage basis (only if there is relocation to another city involving distance of 50 kms).”

50 kms, simply means a new city. Earlier there was no such restriction – however under new rules, this new restriction has been put so that students dont terminate from one CA and join another in the same city.

Normally, you would have to fill form 109, get it forwarded by your current Principal and send it to the ICAI regional office. Form 109 will be filled in triplicate – one retained in your principal’s office, one with you, and one sent to the ICAI regional office.

The regional office will then – usually within two / three weeks send confirmation letter of termination – the letter would be sent to your current principal, and its copy to you. However, you do not need to wait for this letter, and can join with any CA in the other city – and fill the Form 102 & 103. The paperwork procedure with the new principal would be same as when you had joined articleship in the first instance, except that in this case, you will not have to give any fees to ICAI.

(In one of my inter-regional transfer, the file was transferred from EIRC to CIRC after much pursuing after three months! – and in the meanwhile I had already completed more than two months of articleship in the new place!)

The plain fact is that bureaucracy of ICAI is at times worse than that of Govt. So, to get your work done, you have to talk to it, push it, and pursue it till the work gets done.

Depending on the region under which your jurisdiction comes, directly contact on phone and talk to the people concerned –

First talk to the ICAI officials regarding the procedure to be adopted in your case.:

1) Regional Dy. Secy,
2) Asstt Secy concerned with articleship,

and if after that the thing does not work, then talk with

1) Chairman of the Region
2) Central Council member of your region.

Every regional council of ICAI has its own website, just google for the websites of regional offices of ICAI, and they should have all the contact details regarding the office bearers and the officials.

Please help me in my case cause i am really confuse and not able to find proper answers from the site.

1.What should be the proper reason for the termination to restart my articleship elsewhere?

2.Will i be able to restart the articleship in the same city? if not than what should be the least distance?

3.Within what period i have to restart the articleship from the date of termination?

4.What is the proccedure for the same?

For your information

Once I have already applied for transfer on the basis of marriage and its been 4 months, but still haven’t got any reply from the institute for the same and now i want to take termination and start at some other place.

please sir waiting for the reply.

Regards

Devangi

ITS LIKE ONE WAY ROAD I HAD ENTERED. But one thing i can say it really becoming hard day by day to continue articleship. i M NT SATISFIED .if i compare myself with the others then i stand no where and office of 10am to 7.30 (outstation) and 10.00 am to 11 pm (out station) no energy remained for self study. moreover i have become fustrated . its hampering my studies. im nt getting time. At present articles are very less in comparison to work load.

thanking you

As per ICAI – “The registration shall not lapse if such student has appeared in at least one of the last two examinations conducted just before the end of three years. The registration of such student shall however lapse in case he subsequently does not appear in two consecutive examinations.”

But “lapse” does not mean “de-registration”. It only means “de-activation”. So, if three years have already passed (or you have not appeared in CPT in the last two attempts prior to ending of three years), then you don’t need to “re-register” – but you have to “re-activate” your SRN (Student Registration Number) by paying Rs. 500 to ICAI. Also, there is no time limit for re-activation (re-validation in ICAI terminology) of the SRN.

ICAI circular on this issue:
http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=666&c_id=121

I would say, write letter to bosnoida@icai.org and also put in a query at helpdesk http://icai.org/help/ as to where you need to pay this amount of Rs. 500 – to WIRC or to EIRC to reactivate/revalidate your SRN.

You dont need any ‘transfer’ regarding this matter, because the SRN once alloted is for life. The SRN would remain the same wherever you reside, wherever you appear in exam or wherever you do your articleship training. The issue of transfer comes only when one has joined articleship – not before that.

http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/comment-page-1/#comment-97

From what you have written, its pretty clear that you are not learning much. I would say, if you can, then (1) talk to your Principal / Training-in-charge, and if that does not work, then if possible (2) take transfer.

The reason is that the Brand is only useful for introduction. The moment you are asked what you have done – and the various details of audit procedures you would be blank. Moreover, it seems you have not got any exposure to taxation, management consultancy, company law, like formation of companies, efiling of returns etc etc.

Given this situation, you are not getting proper training – particularly when you are a PE-2 passed student. Don’t worry about your three shots in PE-2 – those attempts dont count for much, if you get good marks in final and have good knowledge of the subjects.

I am doing articleship from lodha & co . out of 3 years training, i have completed my 1 years 2 months training. i have to go outstation for audit purposes on frequent basis. i m missing all my tutions and i m net getting time for self study. right now we had less number of listed companies. i m also not learning much here. in this period of articlesip i have done only cash, bank, expenses. our seniors have the policy to retain things. only vouching part is allotted to me and system part is given to others.

even third year article is not learning. i m not satisfied here becoz i think i m not learning here. but i also need a tag of good firm as i have completed my pe-11 exam (inter) in 3 shots. i have my final due in may2011.i m puzzled. i dont know waht should i do. please reply sir .

thanking you

I believe that one who has good knowledge should also be able to get good results.

From ICAI website:

http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=4232&c_id=219

…articled assistants are permitted to pursue only one course alongwith articleship even that be a Graduation course for which they need to seek prior permission of the Council by way of filing Form 112 to the Institute…

“The form 112 is to be filled when the student joins the course while in Articleship, or else, if s/he has already enrolled prior to joining articleship, even in such case, the form is to be filled at the commencement of articleship”

sir but if i do graduation from correspondence then also do i have to fill the prescribed form 112? Also sir in the link you posted it states that the last date of filling the form 112 is 31st march 2010. So, what should i do now as the date has passed away?

1) Clear IPCC Gr 1 (ie. 4 papers)
2) Complete the Computer Course
3) Complete the Orientation Program (35 Hours)

As for doing graduation, one cannot attend any class during prescribed hours – its something like 10 AM to 6 PM (plz check the exact timing with the Institute circular / Prospectus).

The point is – regular college can also be a morning college or an evening college – but it cannot be college during normal working hours of the office.

Also, alongwith articleship, you can do only ONE additional course – and for that ‘permission’ has to be taken in prescribed form 112.

The problem with all such arrangement that has been made by ICAI is, that when you clear your CA Finals, and apply for membership – you will have to submit all details of your qualification – and that time all the scrutiny will be done. So, if they find that you have done degree from a college with regular hours, and misdeclared in permission form 112 – the institute will not give you the CA degree. (without graduation degree, they will anyway not give the CA charter)

There are many variations to such breaches – like students doing courses not prescribed, or doing courses without taking permission. Previously, such breaches were condoned, however, ICAI has become more strict in this matter.

http://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=4998&c_id=219

Reply by Anup: Plz read the article and previous comments.

Dummy articleship training is illegal and morally wrong. The CA who has allowed such dummy – for whatever reasons – is morally corrupt, and the student who has been allowed such dummy is equally at fault and has been initiated into a corrupt practice early in life, which is reprehensible.

This website is against Dummy articleship in any way. If you are aware of such case, please report the issue to ICAI immediately at bosnoida@icai.org

Reply by Anup: If you want indepth exposure, then bigger firms are preferable.

I would advise that you start searching for articleship in right earnest. Infact, you can even request the CA to keep you as trainee for a month. Many CAs (not Big 4) would be willing to take you as trainee prior to articleship. That would help you to acclimatise, as well as check the CA your suitability to the firm.

And anyway, you would understand what goes on in a CA firm. It would also help you to check whether you are suited to work in that firm for three years as article trainee. So if you think that it would be preferable to join another firm for articleship, you can do it without regretting later.

Articleship you can do only after declaration of IPCC (ie. Gr.1) results.

Reply by Anup: Read the article above. As a thumb rule, if you want to go for employment, Big 4 is preferred, else middle firm.

Reply by Anup: Plz go through Point 9 (Does one get stuck) of http://indiapoint.net/ca/2006/02/27/articleship/ and other previous comments to assess your situation.

Reply by Anup: Nearly all CA firms deal in project finance as part of management consultancy. Do you have any specific question in mind?

i would like to know that should i start my articleship right after clearing my CPT or should i complete my inters(IPCC) first

So, to be on safer side, after your exams end in Nov, you can take termination for undergoing industrial training.

Also, your Principal cannot refuse you termination for undergoing industrial training. However, at least give him an advance notice in writing, that you intend to go on industrial training – as such written notice is required as per rules of ICAI.

Regarding your dilemma – if you want to go for service, then Organisations prefer candidates who have undergone industrial training in brand / listed companies. If you aim to open your own firm, then industrial training would hardly be useful.

Try to get good marks and develop those habits, and you wont need any crutches.

As for your other query regarding guidance, please go through the previous comments – much has been written in the previous comments.

http://icai.org/resource_file/7526form_secondment_articles.pdf
(However there is no form – to my knowledge – for intimation of completion of secondment.)

The point is – did you underwent secondment – as in the older times – when it was just the understanding between the two CAs’ ? or you sent this form to ICAI?

If it was just as in the ‘older’ times – you need not intimate anything to the institute. But you have to keep the training records.

But if you have sent the above mentioned form, then I would say that:
since you have completed more than 4 months of secondment:

1) Take a “secondment completion certificate” regarding end of secondment from the current CA under whom you are doing secondment – with complete training records (109 format) and also the fact that you have been paid stipend during the secondment period in compliance of ICAI rules.
2) Thereafter, send a letter of intimation to ICAI regarding the completion of secondment duly forwarded by your Principal (for ref: you can attach copy of form sent to ICAI and also the “secondment completion certificate” for reference).

If you are maintaining any Diary relating to daily works, then get that signed also.

Reply by Anup: For list of firms, contact your local ICAI branch

Plz go through the previous comments / replies – most probably your queries should get resolved.

1) So you want to do Articleship
2) Articleship: Certain Rules

thanks and regards
Rinki

http://www.ey.com/IN/EN/ourlocations

Good Luck

Im staying in Bangalore and I have written the IPCC exam last Nov 2009 and awaiting results. Im quite interested in getting into EnY but not sure how. I assume I can start my artilceship only once i pass group 1. However, due to financial problems, I would like to get into a job that would give me the same exposure as an article student, preferably in the Big4. Im not sure how to go about this. Im would be grateful to have your advice on how to proceed. Thank you.

Reply by Anup: I dont know what is the date you have filled in the form as date of commencement of articleship. On the date which you are filling as your articleship commencement date you should not be in any other occupation.

This can be accessed from: http://www.icai.org/help/

One would have to see how long it lasts and whether it is able to deliver results.

(I remember in the past, ICAI had launched with much fanfare toll-free number for students – which after some time was not functioning).

You can check details about your Principal and Firm from these links:
Member Directory: http://icai.org/post.html?post_id=1812&c_id=92
Firm Directory: http://icai.org/post.html?post_id=1813&c_id=93

As I understand – either you are doing articleship far from your hometown – or you have been assigned to a place that is far from your hometown. If its the latter, then I guess you dont have options open.

However if you joined articleship in a firm that is more than 75 kms from your hometown – and later on the new rules of transfer came into being – then you do have a chance. If this is the case – then talk to your Principal (the one whose name is in the articleship letter from ICAI) and discuss with him the kind of problems you are facing. I would understand that a frank discussion would lead to some positive solution for you.

But keep one thing in mind that you have to keep your Principal in good books. As an article you dont have much options on your own. Its only when your Principal recommends – that your case gets looked at favourably by the Institute.

(For example – outside office hours – during articleship many students start to file IT returns of their neighbours and family friends – but they dont advertise themselves as Tax Consultant by printing visiting cards! Similarly their are articles who help their parents in family business – but they dont become proprietor or partner in the business by signing or registering deeds!)

The position of ICAI is very clear – during articleship you should not be engaged in any occupation.

Prior to articleship and after afticleship – you can engage yourself in anything you wish to do. All restrictions put by ICAI is for the period of articleship.

ICAI gives relaxation only for ‘permitted engagements’ – as I have described in previous reply, and for those who want to pursue some additional course, ICAI gives approval only for ‘specified courses’. The rules of ICAI are getting stricter day by day – so during articleship period – dont take risks.

Regulation 65 : Articled assistant not to engage in any other occupation
“Without the previous permission of the council, obtained on application made in the approved form, no articled assistant shall, during the period of his service as an articled assistant, take any other course of study or training whether academic, professional, or engage in any business or occupation.”

Moreover, the permitted other engagements (subject to conditions) – ie. engagements for which ICAI can give permission are:
1) Teaching for specified hours per week
2) (Non Executive) Director in family business
3) Sleeping partner in family business

Details in the link: http://icai.org/resource_file/14481student_manual_10.pdf

Given this – either dont engage in articleship training or convert your proprietorship firm into partnership by engaging other family members and yourself become a sleeping partner.

Also, do talk about this issue with concerned Asstt Secy / Deputy Secy of your regional council. If you are in place like Mumbai where there is Regional Council – directly meet with the Deputy Secy.

The problem if you hide this matter – then even if you become CA – then anytime in your career – if this issue comes in front of ICAI (your adversaries / competitors / disgruntled articles! can put this up) – you risk cancellation of your CA degree – because there is the evidence of registration of your firm and also your registration with Commercial Tax authorities as a proprietor!

In the end, if after CA exams you want to go for service – its your marks that would count the most – articleship experience after that. If you go for practice – marks does not really matter.

However in your current offer take into account:

1) Transport cost (less significant)
2) Transport time (more significant)
3) Office time – you may have to work late on certain occasions due to work pressure
4) What is the saving potential of your stipend?
5) Would you get time to study? Would you get leave as per rules of ICAI?
6) Do check the nature of ‘financial sector’ work that he is doing – whether this is his side business and he is engaging articles in it in contravention to ICAI rules (many CAs indulge in such malpractice by making articles work in their side business like PAN centers, Stock Market franchisees, Loan agencies, Mutual Fund Processing etc)! If he is doing outsourced work in Professional capacity – then there is nothing to worry.

(b.t.w finance sector is part of service sector!)
Good Luck!

I would suggest that you check with ICAI office at Hyderabad, and Go and meet a few CAs – and ask them about the work profile of articles that is on offer under them. Your criteria should be:

1) Focus of training: Audit or Taxation / etc or a rotation of work
2) Kind of boss – everyone differs in temperament – and CAs can exist in all shades. Very few students in their articleship are happy – so search for a ‘good’ boss. Articleship is typically about mentoring – and the nature and knowledge of boss can make articleship an enjoyable or a horrible experience!
3) Whether you would get leave as per rules of ICAI
4) How many articles are already working in the firm – you may even wish to talk with them
5) Kind of stipend
6) Whether it would involve going outstation or not
7) Whether the firm uses latest technologies like latest computers / laptops etc – whether you would be provided one for the work
8 ) Distance of office from your home.

Based on these criteria choose the one which is best fit.

Secondly, if that company is not in the empanelled list of ICAI, then you have to check whether it qualifies as per the criteria of ICAI, then apply for the empanelment of the company alongwith your industrial training application

Thirdly, to do industrial training, you will have to take termination from your present principal

More details in a previous comment: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-109

The other thing is – one does not have to wait for termination letter (issued by ICAI office) for joining articleship at other place. The new principal should take you as article based on papers signed by previous Principal.

During my training I worked under three Principals. The first one gave me transfer at 2nd month of my articleship (CIRC to EIRC), and the second transfer was on 17th month (EIRC to CIRC). The third one even asked me why I was not going for industrial training! And all this despite the fact that I was usually given critical assignments – that required coordination with auditee company officials and firm staff / other articles.

ICAI has framed all these new rules – and, I am totally at loss to answer your this question. Its best that you go to ICAI regional office, and talk to concerned Officials there. They would best know about such things.

The only thing I can say is verbal confirmations are of no use – because it can always be denied – and you would only be putting yourself in a difficult situation.

Also, the verbal confirmation from the institute authorities can suffice the purpose?

So, in a way, you issue your own certificate – but in my view this is an extreme measure. Things should not come to such a pass. These things can be sorted through talks.

For industrial training go through Point 9 of this very article.

Also, my reply to a similar query on industrial training: http://indiapoint.net/ca/2008/10/31/articleship-certain-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-110

The amended Regulation 56(1) reads: “Every articled assistant executing the deed of articles for the full period of articled training prescribed under these regulations, shall be required to complete such articles only with the member, who has engaged him:

Provided that the articles so engaged may, by agreement between the articled assistant and his principal, be terminated under such exceptional circumstances or conditions, as may be decided by the Council…”

Now, the highlighted part was not there previously – it was added by the amendment. So previously there was no restriction as to transfer. (During my articleship, I myself took inter-regional transfer twice)

While these amendments were done in 2007, it was only in March 2009 that the Council came out with its own interpretation as to what constituted “exceptional circumstance”.

So the decision of the Council regarding restrictions has to be considered while putting into effect the regulation 56(1) relating to termination.

Regarding last year of articleship – there is no restriction regarding termination for industrial training and certain other conditions as put by Council in its announcements of 19-05-09 and 01-07-09. However, as I wrote in your other reply, the Institute has kept with itself full discretion to decide whether the trainee can be allowed termination / transfer or not (the Institutes discretion would override that of the Principal -ie. if Institute says yes, Principal would not say no. And in contrary case, if Principal says yes, and Institute says no – then there is no remedy!).

In some ways, therefore, the Institute has taken away the discretion available to the Article and Principal who are the two parties to the Articleship agreement on matter relating to termination, by exercising its overriding powers vested to it by virtue of the amended regulation.

Thanks for the guidance. Also I needed to know if there are any restritions on transfer in the last one year of articleship, and if Regulations 56(1) is an exception to the given restriction?

plz reply

Thanks

In reply to your queries:

1) Taking dummy articleship is illegal – dont think of dummy.

2) You can do CA of ICAI by taking articleship in USA itself where there are chapters of ICAI eg. New York. This NewYork chapter has centers at Chicago, and is proposed to open more centers at Los Angeles, Houston, Washington DC and Miami. So, I guess even at these places there are Indian CAs under whom you can take up articleship.

So, you dont need to be in India to do training. However examinations are currently conducted in India / Dubai / Nepal

3) Currently as far as I know there is no mutual recognition agreement (MRA) between ICAI and AICPA – though such thing may happen in future.

If such MRA takes place, that would mean passing a few papers to get the CA qualification, without the requirement of any articleship.

For further readings:

1) ICAI NewYork

2) ICAI link stating cooperation with AICPA

I live and work in USA. I did CPA and CIA(Certified Internal Auditor) from USA but always wanted to Indian CA. Can somebody let me know how can I “Dummy” articleship in India?

Please help me.

Mohan Kumar

It is just that some of the ‘black sheeps’ of the profession have brought in the dummy aspect to a very fine training system propounded by the institute.

Infact, the values that such ‘black sheep’ CAs are putting into the students from the very beginning is that the system is corrupt and can be compromised. This is also morally and ethically injurious to the mental attitude of the student.

As per the rules, one cannot be in any other employment when one is doing articleship – because the deed of articles considers articleship as full time employment.

Since the issue of dummy has been raised – I would like to tell, what I have seen (and heard) regarding the dummy thing.

I would say there are two categories of dummy. One is the category, who are not working anywhere – and maybe they have their family business and are full time busy with it. So they do their dummy with some known CA (who might be managing their account/audit or is a relative).

The other category would be people who take up dummy with some CA in remote area / moffusil town and themselves go for service in some metro – and do their employment in pseudoname / alias. Such CAs who grant dummy may be charging from their ‘dummy’ articleship ‘clients’ something like two to three thousand per month.

Obviously – taking dummy is dangerous. For such student if he becomes CA and later some complaint is done with ICAI, then on investigation and result of such investigation the CA qualification would get annulled. In reality (and whatever I have read about/on/by ICAI), I have never come across any such case. Also I have never heard/seen any CA being pulled up or disqualified for giving dummy.

(Infact in a case of major violations of rules of articleship where the principal would not pay his articles and would not give leave etc.- and the case going upto high court and final decision holding the principal being guilty after ten/fifteen years of litigation – the only punishment given by ICAI was a ‘reprimand’!)

There are many rules and regulations set by institute to keep ‘control’ over training – but in this regard – the rules of ICAI is at best only in name. It keeps bringing out advisories from time to time – but I have never seen action being taken – or if any action has been taken by ICAI it has not been publicized.

Also, dummy articleship is equally frustrating for the genuine students who undergo the rigour – because the dummies get fairly good time to undertake coaching and come out fairly well in exam – whereas the genuine students barely get a few weeks leave after much ‘haggling’ with their principal (for most of the CA firms it is the rule of the proprietor / partner when it comes to leave!) .

Since you are doing ‘soul searching’ – and since you are with EY KPO – I would say try to check for articleship in its audit arm (Batliboi) as the Big4 pays the highest stipend. If that is not financially suitable to you – my other advice would be that you check out CWA of ICWAI which is equally good. Now a days they also have a system of three years training – but it exempts all students from the three year training who are already working in such related sectors like finance / accounts etc. Except for the audit thing (only ‘practicing’ CAs can do the specified audit) for all other purposes and for employment the CWAs holds itself equally with CAs. Infact many CEOs / Finance Directors of Companies are CWAs. For example Chanda Kochhar the CEO of ICICI is a CWA and not CA! In many companies its the CWAs who call the shot. Other than this there is the option of doing part time MBA / Executive MBA – which I would not suggest. In India – the Corporate Finance is still a CA/CWA thing.

So take a good decision – dont try to circumvent the system – as that is not good for morals and for career. Take a decision where you can be proud of your education and hard work.

Good Luck.

I am new to your blog and feel it worthy of mentioning that you have maintained the quality of this site in a highly efficient manner. I have a query (its more of a soul searching one!). I have cleared pe 1 in may 04 when i was in bcom part1. after this exam i could not give a fully prepared shot at pe2 or any of its variants as i started to work full time at EY KPO after graduation as a financial analyst. I would like to pick up from where i left by enrolling for IPCC. My question is this – if i get a dummy articleship and go to ca’s office for work after my day job for 2-3 hours, will it be a safer alternative than a pure dummy? and how does the institute track down dummy articleship? I am forced to continue with my day job due to financial obligation, yet would want to know if there is a solution that is safe and ethical. Kindly advise. Thanks.

You seem to be confused. What do you mean by “where should I go?”

If you are interested in doing CA then obviously you should focus on completing your articleship training – and you have not even completed your graduation! So you will have to concentrate on your graduation exams as well.

There have been cases earlier that students have passed CA finals but had not cleared graduation. Plz remember that for one to become a CA – ie admittance as member of ICAI – is possible only if one is also a graduate! So your graduation studies does matter.

Mohit Bansal

I guess you are under the new scheme IPCC. Since you are already in SRCC – which is perhaps the best in Commerce in India – I would suggest you continue there – and make your foundation strong. And while you are doing BCom – finish your Inter Gr 1 & 2 and other requirements like Computer training etc.

At best you would be set back by one and half year. But in articleship you would be able to get better assignments and also the articleship training would be more meaningful.

I have seen that -generally- students who are pursuing BCom and doing articleship – are not given responsible assignments – simple reason – they do not know either the laws nor have understanding to apply them – and moreover they are dividing their time with BCom and its coaching!

They are mostly engaged in -as some would suggest- ‘peon type’ works or just vouching kind of works! These make the whole concept of articleship futile.

Also being in SRCC – I would suggest you engage yourself in “summer training” kind of thing in some organisation – that would give you a better perspective of how organisations work – and also help you integrate fast with the firm where you do articleship.

Good Luck

but i m in a bigger fix. i have just passed my class 12th exams in 2009 with 96%.therefore i got thru SRCC(delhi univ). now i also managed to clear cpt in june 2009. now shud i leave college (dat to sri ram college of commerce) or shud i leave ca?? it wasnt difficult to decide (i opted SRCC becoz of d brand name) until my parents showed interest in CA.

then even i feel that a professional degree is always better than a graduate’s degree. now i’d be really grateful if you’ll express your valuable opinion on this. eagerly waiting for your reply…

Yours is really a problem that puts Articles in dilemma. On facing problems – usually transfer is the first option that one thinks of.

Previously the transfer of articles was quite easy. However recently ICAI has upturned that policy making transfers very difficult – to the extent that now Articled Assistants are searching for ‘ideas’ on how to beat the ICAI’s new rules of transfer!

Moreover it has made Principals more powerful to the extent that complain from a principal regarding neglect of work by Articles can even lead to setting aside of the period of articleship that the Article has actually worked!

However, I would suggest that transfer is really an extreme step – and unless its really beyond circumstances – one should not contemplate it.

One should learn how to fight and move ahead within the system – its hardly useful running away from it. Perhaps during articleship that is the biggest learning. Just think when you go for practice – and have to argue your client’s case in front of hardnosed AO – or you have to make a proper audit report dispite compromising demands from your client – there is no running away. You have to be patient and fight within the system – in articleship that is the biggest learning.

I would understand that eventhough you have been assigned sundry jobs – your Principal definitely is having better assignments. I would suggest you talk to your principal – tell him about your qualifications – and tell him that you want more responsible work – HR policies not withstanding – perhaps he would know how to browbeat his HR – he may engage you in more challenging assignments – without you needing transfer to other dept – ask him to send you on outstation audit – you will get to know people and variety of accounting methods used in different organisations.

Its always better to talk straight – and that is always appreciated. Would anyone be angry with his / her Trainee who wants more responsible assignments or more work to do?

Also generally the more confidence you gain of your Principal, then you are assigned better works – and always keep your communication channel open with your Principal.

Congrats on your clearing CA Finals. Marks are not really that important – your command over the subject is more important. Based on what you have written, I would suggest:

1) If you have not done GMCS – then enroll for the 3 months training imparted by ICAI. This includes GMCS as well – and the three months period is not counted as leave – its part of your training. (Its a fantastic course designed by ICAI)

2) Paper work is part of the life of CA – whether it be audit or filing returns or consultancy. In bigger firms you would find even more documentation!

3) Since you have last six months of articleship left – I cant say if your Principal would like to leave you for secondment. Moreover though the rule of secondment is quite fine on paper – in actual practice it happens only if there is some alliance between the work of CAs. Or if the partners / firms are situated in different cities and have works in common.

4) Six months are also not sufficient for industrial training!

5) Decide on what you want to do – practice or employment? If employment then consultancy or particular sector – the choice of sector is very important – natural choices are banking / Stock Market / AMC / Insurance.

6) In the remaining period of articleship I would suggest you hone up your skills relating to Accounting Standards and Taxation. And since you are in Kolkata – contact HR managers of management consultancies (including Big 4). These are located in and around Camac Street and also in Salt Lake. Also check if you are interested in any foreign language – that would increase your employment opportunity tremendously.

7) Keep a look out on the notice board at EIRC Russel Street! Many CA firms / consultancies / MNCs / Consultants of MNCs keep putting up interesting job opportunities.

8 ) Always remember – its not the marks or the attempt – but the knowledge and the confidence / energy / enthusiasm in your chosen field that counts. If you say in interview that you don’t like repetitive paper work then you are gone. You have to love paper-work, calculations, commercial law etc. to be successful in this field – it doesn’t matter whether you are in practice or employment. This profession is about repetitive paper work (its only the clients / assignments that keep changing – the nature of work remains the same)!

9) If you don’t like repetitive paper-work or tax work – perhaps you can check out things like SAP consultancy – in FICO module CAs are in great demand – but then that would be like branching out of the core field.

I still have more than 6 mths of articleship left. I am looking for SECONDMENT but I dont know where and how to get it.

I would love to work in a good company/firm( Big Four most likly) and get used to things on the larger platform.

Pls help. I dont just want to file returns anymore.

P.S. I live in kolkata.